Adam
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Perfectly logical simply a different opinion to yours. Perhaps it’s best to leave it that before we begin comparing google map measurements.
You’re absolutely correct however about the High St “no longer perceived to be in the centre of the day time economy” which is a corollary of the point I made – being home to the most significant heritage and architecture we have, it should not have been allowed to “fall away”. It did so due to an absence of any form of top-level coordination – be it the council, local forums or both.
If your only conclusion is that I am part of the EM press office then perhaps you’re rather more tormented by it that you’d care to let on. Let me re-affirm my thoughts towards EM made in previous threads: it’s badly laid out, has dreadful pedestrian access, areas of poor-quality finish, lack of pedestrian shelter etc etc etc. Let’s hope you can sleep a little easier this evening now.
Oh and by the way, I’m a casual shopper.
@thewayneinspain 3144 wrote:
but high street was not old retail hub of the town, regent st was.
And this is where the problems lie for the town, the challenge is to change the mindset of the locals that they will want to walk between the two in the wind & the rain.
Now they used to travel between the two once a week on a monday, but what previous generations were happy doing, the more impatient latter ones are not. Yes i know that regent st is not great for protection fromthe elements.
I would agree however that the collective brand image of high street is alot worse percieved than ever before… more pubs and the smoking law are probably part of that image problem as well as the types of shops.
Seems your memories of High St don’t extend back as far as mine.
It’s clutching at straws to imply that the centre suddenly explodes in to a Bacardi-advert-style, multi-ethnic explosion of colour and joy on a sunny day.
EM is coordinated by a management team with the aim of maintaining a pleasant, civilised area to visit. The rest of the town has no such coordination.
What’s very encouraging however is that there are a growing number of people who care enough to debate the issue on a forum such as this. Perhaps it’s the start of something…
@thewayneinspain 3142 wrote:
There’s a big difference in distance between watergate st/grosvenor centre and eagles meadow/regent st.
There is also a big difference in cover from the elements from grosvenor centre to watergate than eagles meadow to regent street.
There is also a hell of a difference between the domestic product of chester and wrexham as well as the percentage that are employed by public organisations.
I have no idea how,but the challenge is how to make people want to walk in the rain & wind from one part of town to the other.
Those with a grudge against EM will continue to blame it for everything from socio-economic decline to their persistent genital rash. That’s fine. My point is straightforward to grasp however. Wrexham High St is directly connected to EM (with 3m visitors last year apparently) and yet it is a barren wasteland in shopping terms as there is no collective “ownership” of the street or indeed any kind of top-down coordination. When you add this to multiple private landlords with no vested interest other than a quick buck you end up with a chaotic ensemble of tat. Only the collective input of traders, communities, civic societies and councilors can address this.
@Alunh 3135 wrote:
The negative attitude to Wrexham will not be countered by the expenditure of £20,000 on a marketing exercise. Though there is something in the local culture that appears negative about a whole range of things, those who slate the town can base their position in well documented thought. The recent work by the New Economics Foundation and the recent All Party Committee on Markets would both find Wrexham a classic example of a lack of joined up thinking. Eagles Meadow could and should be an out and out success story. It does bring people to the town. Unfortunately the geniuses who designed it located it in such a way that it has altered footflow patterns. This has adversely affected the rest of the town and has adversely affected the traditional town centre and, in particular, the Independent and Market sector.
The pattern of development is very much what the NEF have noted in a typical Clone town scenario. To counter, the Council has to develop a finely nuanced response based around multiple response strategies. This might mean selective pedestrianisation, it might mean rent reviews for Borough owned properties (like the Markets), it might mean better signage. The town has to be locked back together, traversing made easier and more user friendly, etc
..and yet the Grosvenor shopping centre does not affect footfall in Watergate St, the Darwin Centre (Shrewsbury) does not have a negative impact on the (many new) independants in Dogpole.. Etc, etc..
On paper, contrary to yor opinion, EM is superbly connected to the centre of Wrexham with it’s main walkway leading from the High St – who’s very name is in common language used to describe the shopping centre of a town. Yet Wrexham’s High St is anything but. Long since lost to the cheap pubs, tanning salons, cheap pubs, Polish Deli’s, cheap pubs, takeaways and cheap pubs.
Interesting to see last year the old Barclay’s building being spruced up for rental/sale. Looks rather smart. Wonder if it’s had any interest..
@zinger 3023 wrote:
People will not forgive the demolition of beautiful old buildings with history to be replaced by buildings of little character. The new builds should be sympathetic to the old. Eagles Meadow is so obviously separate to the old town centre that you choose to go to one or the other. The younger element is more likely to go there whereas with the bus station at the opposite side of town older people are not going to walk that far. Bad town planning. It was the same with the Peoples Market. Entry from the town centre was only an afterthought. Separate chunks instead of joined up thinking.
I’d certainly concur with your first point. EM will never win any architectural awards however I could ream off a long list of visually more offensive buldings. Top 4 would probably be:
-Regent St Buldings (Brynyffynnon)
-Queens Square
-Lord street (opp back of old Woolies)
-Crown buildingsNot only are the above visually offensive in their apathetic design, due to their poor build quality some are showing signs of wear beyond that of some of the pre 20th Century buildings.
The peoples market doesnt work simply because it looks and feels like an underground carpark and sells items that can now be bought (probably cheaper) in large retail stores.
Rather than negative perceptions I would suggest that a bigger blockage to improving the town are the negative attitudes of many towards the additions (or proposed additions) of higher end outlets in the town. Nothing grates me more than to hear people dismiss some of the stores in Eagles Meadow as “too posh”, “too expensive”, “not a Wrexham shop”. Some pillock on TripAdvisor claims that EM has “some of the most expensive shops there are”.
Why would anybody invest their own money in a new venture such as a deli, a Tapas bar, a boutique (i.e. something which could add a different dimension to the town and attract new visitors) when you hear attitudes such as these? And yet the irony is we are able to sustain 40+ “beauty and hair” salons, countless mobile phones shops (some of the duplicated), 3 Greggs, numerous bars, 4 or 5 tattooists etc, etc. Hardly the sign of a town with no disposable income..
And this is the kind of image a marketing director of a large retail store would see of the town when looking for towns to expand into. In fact they probably wouldn’t bother to look any further than Experian’s Mosaic classification of the town, something I’ve yet to see, but would be very interested to.
This is where the council can play a role however. Rather telling potential investors that they’ve got it all wrong about the town, show them they understand the current failings of the town and this is the 2/5/10 year plan…
@Alunh 2999 wrote:
Wrexham remains very vulnerable to the various national trends because the rump of Independent shops are largely in the old town. It is this part of Wrexham that looks threadbare and the local Independents are all suffering as a consequence of the drift to Eagles Meadow of Multiple traders, Customers and Cash.
The main strategy that the Council has to embark upon is to try and connect or lock the town back together again. This will be difficult and complex
but the harsh reality is that the old town as you call it is a pretty miserable place to be due to cheap, tacky shop fronts with poorly maintained architecture above and generally only visited out of need. However as the council don’t have direct control over these properties it’s going to very difficult to rebrand the area to attract a wider, dare I say it higher-end, range of outlets, be they independent or a national chain.
Despite the many, many failings of Eagles Meadow it still provides a relatively pleasant shopping environment compared to the rest of the town. Most significantly it’s provided a safe, civilised environment for couples and families to shop and eat in the evenings. Prior to EM, where could you have taken children out for a meal in Wrexham on a Friday or Saturday evening? The Wrexham High Street has sadly long been lost to the revellers..
It’s perhaps time our Town Centre management team were prepared to take reality on the chin and speak to some of the numerous small business owners opening shops/bars/cafes/delis/restaurants in Shrewsbury, Chester etc and ask the obvious but painful question ‘why have you not considered opening in Wrexham?’.
Wrexham provides pretty much everything that people need but not a great deal of what people want and until Wrexham starts providing a more balanced range of outlets to cater for a wider demographic then many people will spend their cash, and their limited time, elsewhere..
@wrexview 2886 wrote:
For coffee or tea try the Tea and Coffee shop on High Street, they serve fresh coffee at the rear of the shop and carry a wide range of coffees. They will even create a blend for you!
I’d second that.. great to see them busy over Xmas too.
Quite a culinary trail you’ve been on.. You should do tours.. Maybe put flyers up near La Boqueria..
Must be the cafe culture that’s drawing in the crowds…
WCBC: Tourism – Shopping and Café Culture
Is Greggs a cafe?
