Short changing wrexham
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Clr Wynn you have started your response with the term ‘forced merger’ – if you and your colleagues had actually taken the time to debate the whole range of options in the Williams Commission report you would realize there was clearly an option for Councils to put their own proposals forward. Your decision as a Council to be so inward looking as to not even bother talking with potential partners Denbighshire/Flintshire– by your own admission such discussion /consideration was never on the cards.
The facts speak for themselves we have Councilors in Wrexham who are now to big for their boots now they are playing with the big boys in Cardiff. There is not one Councilor in Wrexham it appears that has any idea how to negotiate. A failure by yourself and others to have a dialogue with potential partners (or at least find out what is on offer) can only be viewed as total gross mismanagement both at Council Member and Officer levels and certainly not acting in the best interest of people of Wrexham if the door has been slammed shut so early in the process.“The common people pray for rain, health, and a summer that never ends. They don’t care what games the high lords play.” ― Jorah Mormont
I think the truth is the Welsh Assembly Government believe the people of Wales are not very interested in local democratic representation.
The WAG is looking to spend money on something of more popular and immediate concern, ie NHS Wales.Ultimately, plans are little different to Mrs Thatcher’s war on local councils during the 1980s. Does it make much difference whether Tory policy from Westminster or Labour from Cardiff ?
The result will be the same, less local democracy in Wales.“The farther backward you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.”
Winston ChurchillLooking back to King Edward 1st is far enough.
From 1277, and more so after 1283, Edward embarked on a full-scale project of English settlement of Wales, creating new towns at Aberystwyth, Rhuddlan and Flint. Their new residents were English migrants, with the local Welsh banned from living inside them.Why should Wrexham merge with Flint ?
They wouldn’t even let us live there back then !Sacrificing local council representation to help WAG balance the books is plain wrong. We may as well consider The Senedd to be King Edward’s new castle in Cardiff Bay.
If Wrexham Council quietly merge with Flintshire Council Leighton Andrews will have succeeded in subjugating Wrexham people to a greater degree than King Edward 1st and Mrs Thatcher dreamed.
I’m pleased Cllr Phil Wynne is arguing the case for keeping Wrexham represented locally by Wrexham people.
Of course everything isn’t perfect but it has to be better than blindly being incorporated into Greater Flintshire, unless somebody comes along with a convincing plan.
The one person that hasn’t is….
Leighton Andrews – Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaWrexham people need to show the Welsh Assembly Government we DO care about local democracy and want more not less.
Quite frankly I’m surprised Cllr Pritchard waited 8 minutes.
@JaneJ 17594 wrote:
Clr Wynn you have started your response with the term ‘forced merger’ – if you and your colleagues had actually taken the time to debate the whole range of options in the Williams Commission report you would realize there was clearly an option for Councils to put their own proposals forward. Your decision as a Council to be so inward looking as to not even bother talking with potential partners Denbighshire/Flintshire– by your own admission such discussion /consideration was never on the cards.
The facts speak for themselves we have Councilors in Wrexham who are now to big for their boots now they are playing with the big boys in Cardiff. There is not one Councilor in Wrexham it appears that has any idea how to negotiate. A failure by yourself and others to have a dialogue with potential partners (or at least find out what is on offer) can only be viewed as total gross mismanagement both at Council Member and Officer levels and certainly not acting in the best interest of people of Wrexham if the door has been slammed shut so early in the process.JaneJ you clearly hold strong anti feelings towards the ruling coalition at WCBC and the stance we are currently pursuing to keep Wrexham as a stand alone authority.
If we fail to win over the hearts and minds of our fellow Wrexhamites over the prevailing months then our stance will be proven to a worthless one to of taken. That said if we had immediately jumped into bed with Flintshire without any dialogue with the Wrexham general public then we would equally of been challenged by others that we were disrespectful to the principle of local democracy.
We now await Leighton Andrews next statement on the future of Welsh local authorities, so nothing is currently lost and who is to say dialogue will not take place between Denbighshire/Flintshire and Wrexham councillors in the intervening tIme.
Just to prove you are not politically driven in your comments would you please consider sharing your views by answering my questions individually? I hope you don’t mind me asking but I was hoping to start a debate which would generate more light than heat on the future governance of our town and county.
Cllr Phil Wynn
Is it no wonder I am anti the current coalition – it is due to false promises that have come from the mouths of elected Members and the lack of control they have in place on what their officers are doing. Why is it that the largest amount of funding the Council have for the regeneration of the town Vibrant and Viable over £10 million plus additional investment yet the use and development is effectively taking place behind closed doors and individuals are ‘cherry picked’ to be involved. At yesterday’s Town Centre Forum there was absolutely NO reference what so ever – WHY? Where is the V and V Partnership that should be in place to include the Private Sector business owners — I for one would certainly want to be part of such a group.
You need to look long and hard at what is going on and who is involved- it is also now looking like the ‘Independents Group’ are aligning themselves with the new Conservative candidate who has stated in the Wrexham Leader today that Clr Pritchard is right to carry out ‘due diligence and not be pushed’. This is a nonsense — for any business to carry out due diligence you need to discuss and gather information from the other side — something the Council Leader or your Executive Management team have not carried out.
How long will we it be before we see your Independent Group (including the 10 Labour defectors) formally endorse the new Conservative candidate.
To show I am committed to the development of Wrexham (I may be politically motivated but that is at a non Party Political view point but as an observer of ow Party Politics has intervened in getting things done for the greater good of Wrexham).Leighton Andrews – Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Does anyone know what his job was in the real world? He seems like another politician who has never done a real days work.
Lecturer and Head of BBC Public Relations
Leighton Andrews AM – About LeightonPerhaps you should also ask the question what job did the Leader of Wrexham Council have in the real world so you get a balanced (if possible) of both characters and see if there is any common ground between them.. Any one know the answer to this question or is he a man of mystery!!
Congratulation to Clr Wynn for bring this debate to the fore — it is such a pity that your fellow Councilors who read these threads and very occasionally comment have not added anything to the debate. The absence of these other faceless Councilors is highlighting the level of uncertainty or the unwillingness to raise their head above the parapet.
If there is such an issue about the possible name of the new area why did Wrexham Council not put a marker down for managing Greater Wrexham.A country with a population of barely 3 million does not need 22 local government bodies to administer it. It doesn’t even need an Assembly which has brought Wales nothing but hurt. That being said if the concern is delivery of local services at a local level why don’t they rationalise the management structures and back office roles. Before bricks are thrown, I am a local govt officer in a back office role. In the big city Councils which have populations approaching that of Wales, have one Head of Education we have 22.
Thanks to the over burden of local government and the heavily over stocked NHS we have a GDP in Wales of approaching 75% public sector. It is both irresponsible and uneconomical to run a country’s finances like this. We are all working and paying taxes to fund our own posts leaving nothing to invest in health, education and infrastructure.
Instead of throwing the toys out of the pram, having a tantrum and crying we won’t we won’t we won’t, I would have more respect for the Wrexham Councillors if they were taking a lead in helping Wales to become an economic success.
If they came to the table with intelligent and rational ideas of combining back office roles, or in encouraging current teams to think about setting up arms length companies to offer such services as HR, Payroll, Accountancy and Internal Audit, they would show that they were really interested in promoting economic success in Wrexham.
The stance they are taking suggests they are more afraid of losing their cushy Councillor roles with juicy increments for sitting on committees, than proving to the people of Wrexham that they believe in providing a good local service.@Mrs Crewe 17608 wrote:
A country with a population of barely 3 million does not need 22 local government bodies to administer it. It doesn’t even need an Assembly which has brought Wales nothing but hurt. That being said if the concern is delivery of local services at a local level why don’t they rationalise the management structures and back office roles. Before bricks are thrown, I am a local govt officer in a back office role. In the big city Councils which have populations approaching that of Wales, have one Head of Education we have 22.
Thanks to the over burden of local government and the heavily over stocked NHS we have a GDP in Wales of approaching 75% public sector. It is both irresponsible and uneconomical to run a country’s finances like this. We are all working and paying taxes to fund our own posts leaving nothing to invest in health, education and infrastructure.
Instead of throwing the toys out of the pram, having a tantrum and crying we won’t we won’t we won’t, I would have more respect for the Wrexham Councillors if they were taking a lead in helping Wales to become an economic success.
If they came to the table with intelligent and rational ideas of combining back office roles, or in encouraging current teams to think about setting up arms length companies to offer such services as HR, Payroll, Accountancy and Internal Audit, they would show that they were really interested in promoting economic success in Wrexham.
The stance they are taking suggests they are more afraid of losing their cushy Councillor roles with juicy increments for sitting on committees, than proving to the people of Wrexham that they believe in providing a good local service.Mrs Crewe – I totally agree that there are savings that can be delivered by unifying back room functions which would have little impact for the residents of Wrexham or Flintshire, other than knowing we are doing are best to protect front-line services.. What I am advocating however is this is delivered without Wrexham having to lose control of its own destiny, which would happen if a Welsh Labour fast-tracked merger was to of happened.
In the meantime WCBC are working on a Business Plan to reshape how we deliver services in Wrexham and which services we are going to deliver following a further £45m of cuts to our budget. If we take our eye off this bigger “ball”then the likelihood is in the very near future there will be no local democracy to debate.
In my ward I have recently supported the planning application for a new office headquarters for the Queen Award winning company, Monnypenny. If all goes to plan they will deliver a thousand job opportunities for Wrexhamites. There are also a number of major building projects in the pipe-line, such as the Prison,which will also add much needed job opportunities, especially at a time when WCBC are likely to be losing over a thousand staff, following the budget cuts we are being asked to deliver.
As a Wrexham resident on and off for 59 years I can count on one hand the number of times I have been to Flintshire. What does it have to offer for Wrexham residents, Mold, Deeside don’t make me laugh??? Only Moel Famau makes a trip there worth it.
In my 59 years I have been in a number of counties, Denbighshire, Clwyd and now Wrexham county borough. It seems that every so often some remote politician dreams up a wow scheme to change the county boundaries of somewhere they don’t know , waste everyone’s time and get everyone’s back up.
If the economic arguement is so damn good then can Mr Andrews publish it for Wrexham residents to see and review please. There is already co-operation between councils in Wrexham and Flintshire but economics is only part of it, there are other social factors to be considered if you want to merge any counties, towns or whatever. Mr Andrews please do not assume that Wrexham residents want anything to do with Flintshire based on your whim !
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