Short changing wrexham
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Posts
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@Sheefag 17538 wrote:
It’s identity politics that I object to Alun.
I’m totally with you on this. I hate the way that voting patterns run in families or faiths or even language usage. I do think, however, that to regard the political community as a corrupted self-serving species can ensnare us in a way that doesn’t help matters.
Having had so many negative encounters with public sector folk, it can make you feel that way, but I do sense that most of the Councillors, like the rest of us, do want the best for their community.
I would prefer to engage on areas where I totally disagree with them than on their supposed motives
I don’t pretend to understand politics. I certainly don’t get it one little bit, seems like childish playground games to me.
But as a proud Wrexhamite I don’t understand what Wrexham has to gain from merging with any county. Wrexham is the largest town in North Wales. As has been stated, Flintshire is worse off financially that we are so are we running major risk of inheriting their financial difficulties? Or can we help in boost them? What will this mean for the council led services? Are they going to be stretched even thinner than they already are? What about the education authority? Are schools going to suffer?
I don’t think we need to be part of another county. We are doing well just as we are.
There seem to be a few plus points involved. For example, on an economy of scale basis they hope to save on duplication of provision so that there will only be one HR department, one set of Secretaries and so on. Whilst there may be more work, the departments overall may be reduced. The second plus would be on the strategic side particularly when it came to Economic Development.
On the negative side, there are the points mentioned by Councillor Wynn
Education across the counties — the School support service to improve standards is in place for all schools operating across the six counties of North Wales and has been for about two years. Why because of failing standards (Wrexham being lower than Flintshire in published league tables).
Safeguarding Children’s Board — joint between Flintshire and Wrexham to reduce the risk of major child protection issues — in place for two years.
Community Safety Partnerships — this is now pan North Wales under the name of Area Planning Board.
Economic development and European Funding Partnership — North Wales Economic Ambition Board — all projects are approved at a pan North Wales level.
Regional planning — Chief Executives and Leaders of the si North Wales Council meet as the Regional Leadership Board.
Rural Development — previously managed by WCBC is now Wrexham , Flintshire and Denbighshire brought together and managed by Cadwyn Clwyd.
Children’s Fostering Service — now pan North WalesThese are only a few of the services that are already being run jointly with other Local Authorities. For those readers who think joint working win’t work are you looking for the above examples and others to be abolished and brought back within the control of Wrexham Council only– I just ask you to think long and hard at what the impact may be to change the way these services have been running.
@PhilWynn 17529 wrote:
Why is the Welsh Labour Party hell bent on selling off our proud Town and Villages to “Greater Flintshire”.
As a born and bred Wrexhamite, my conscience is clear when I say, my loyalty is to the people of Wrexham, rather than to the people of Flintshire, or come to that Wales.
So I for one, along with fellow W.C.B.C. elected members, will be openly challenging Leighton Andrews’ [Welsh Labour Party AM for Rhondda] instructions, that we are destined to become a suburb of his vision called “Greater Flintshire”.
Before the accusation is made, my challenge is not motivated by a concern for my own financial well-being, or as a “stick in the mud”, but by a clear sense of injustice that the Cardiff centric politicians of Wales wish to see the face of local democracy changed throughout Wales, without the approval of the people they are meant to serve.
Over the pursuing months I am hopeful that the hearts and minds of fellow Wrexhamites can be won over by the argument that their interests are best served by their own community elected members, serving on a Wrexham based Council, rather than by the Labour Party politicians based in Cardiff, Flint Coleshill, Connah’s Quay, Mold, Mancott,…..who are driving this agenda. It is interesting to note that the remaining Labour Party W.C.B.C. elected members, during the summer, were happy to oppose such a merger, following workshops held in August for members. Likewise at our Council meeting in September, they were happy to abstain [rather than vote against] the Wrexham elected members unanimous decision to decline Leighton Andrews’ invitation to enter into a voluntary merger with Flintshire C.C.
If public support for our stance can be achieved then we have a fighting chance of convincing the Welsh Labour Party, or whichever political party holds power after the 2016 Welsh Assembly election, that there is merit in allowing W.C.B.C. to stand alone, just as the William’s Report recommends Powys CC’s can stand alone, even though population wise theirs is similar to Wrexham.
For me any debate, on the issue of forcing Wrexham C.B.C. to merge with Flintshire C.C., needs to be discussed on many levels, which includes:
1. Does the Welsh Labour Party have a mandate to change the fabric of Welsh local democracy, without the consent of the people of Wales?
2. Come to that, do the elected members of both authorities have the democratic mandate to do likewise, by way of signing up to the voluntary merger which Leighton Andrews’ was arm-twisting Cllr Mark Pritchard to do on behalf of W.C.B.C?
3. As any pending change in local democracy will need to last the test of time, should we not be looking at a boundary review first, rather than forcing existing authorities to merge?
4. What are the unforeseen, or glossed over, consequences of a rushed through decision, settled on terms dictated to by Leighton Andrews’?
5. What are the true up-front costs of a merger and will this be charged to the Wrexham and Flintshire rate-payer?
6. How many years will it take to repay these costs [before any annual savings derived from the forced merger can be spent on front-line services]?
7. What guarantee is Leighton Andrews’ providing the people of Wrexham, that these savings will be retained by a new authority, for the delivery of front line services?
8. W.C.B.C. is in the throes of delivering a Business Plan which will set out how we intend to deliver the £45,000,000 of budget cuts, the Welsh Labour Party are looking to impose on W.C.B.C. and by default our local economy. As such would the added distraction of simultaneously delivering a forced merger derail such plans? If so what future is there for local democracy?
9. Can an argument be made for a new model of delivering local democracy [acknowledging the need to work in an ever closer partnership with Flintshire C.C.] which still allows both authorities to retain their own identities and civic centres?I shall come back with my own thoughts on the questions I have posed, once fellow contributors to the wrexham.com forum have had an opportunity to add their own thoughts.
As I type I’ve just asked myself the question, will wrexham.com be re branded as greater flintshire.com? If so is this first example of the unforeseen consequence of a decision imposed on Wrexham by Cardiff based politicians?
Cllr Phil Wynn – elected member for the W.C.B.C. Brynyffynnon Ward and member of the Independent Group
Councillor Wynn, the easiest way of answering the questions you have posed is to get around the table with Flintshire and discuss and debate the potential make up of any merger. Maybe by doing this you can then advise the people of Wrexham as to what the opportunities/disadvantages of a merger actually are. By doing this would remove the claims of self preservation and the argument turkeys don’t vote for Christmas.
Scaremongering and back biting will solve nothing. As independents it is easy to blame other political groups but to have a leader profess he is against merger because it’s best for Wrexham when it is obvious that all options have not been fully explored.
Excellent point Dylan regarding education standards in Wrexham. How does the current administration propose to improve standards to a satisfactory level without collaboration? I firmly believe that Wrexham should explore all avenues. As a parent I’m extremely concerned about education in Wrexham. We need improvement now not years down the line. Get around the table, discuss and debate and explore all avenues including merger. To discount now could disadvantage us later. By the Evening Leader reports you could have already.
In addition to the above can Cllr Wynn post what potential benefits of a merger are as his opening salvo is all focussing on the negative.
In business we do a SWAT analysis which identifies Strengths, Weaknesses, Threats which allow you to make informed decisions. Has Cllr Wynn and WCBC heard of this??
PhilWynn, I don’t know you and I don’t recall ever meeting or speaking with you; but …… I totally agree with you and applaud you LOUDLY (anyone with intelligence listening???). Keep up the fight for democracy. Keep up the fight for the voices of the electorate and the people of Wrexham to be heard.
Good Man.
Firstly may I thank those who have shared their views on the forced merger of Wrexham and Flintshire.
I would say a fair summation, which may well be representative of the majority of residents in Wrexham, ranges from many questioning the benefit and motives of the merger to those who just want elected councillors to get on and do it. In the middle ground there are a number of contributors who are undecided and need more detailed information before making their minds up.
One under-current I am picking up on is politicians [even mere County Councillors like myself] are held in low esteem by many, which I guess started with the expenses scandal, to the current day when many feel let down by those national politicians which got this country into a financial muddle and the policy decisions the current government are following to eliminate the countries excessive budget deficit.
Sadly for me these anti-politician concerns which are openly expressed will do little to encourage the likes of yourselves to stand in future local elections. A loss to democracy unless this worrying trend can be reversed.
As for the questions I have posed, I will come back to them separately.
As for a response to some of the questions raised to-date, my thoughts are:
“Interested” – only six local authorities have shown any interest to enter into voluntarily mergers, we in Wrexham are therefore with the majority. From my discussions with Conwy Councillors their decision to merge hinges on the Welsh Government covering the significant up-front costs of their merger with Denbighshire. If this is not forthcoming then their voluntary arrangement may fall by the way side. The point I am making is it would of been foolish to of rushed into merger talks, as Leighton Andrews was hoping would happen and that has been the decision of most local authorities.
Your comment that we ought to sit down with Flintshire will not directly lead to answers being provided to any of the questions I have posed [apart from no 5. partially] as these questions need to be answered by Leighton Andrews, as the Minister for local government in Wales.
If you re-read my Qu 9. then I hope you will acknowledge I am not averse to making efficiency savings [thereby freeing up money for front-line services] by working ever closer with the elected members in Flintshire but not necessarily by committing to a full scale merger.
As for the accusation of self-preservation, all I can say is I recognise there is a need to deliver democracy for less money, so I would not be averse to their being fewer elected members in a free standing Wrexham Council, or if needs be for members allowances to be scaled back. That is a discussion yet to be had, so I’m happy to be accused of voting for Christmas. It’s a great shame the empire building politicians in Brussels and Cardiff Bay are not advocating the same discipline.
As for any SWOT analysis. At the moment I cannot think of a defining benefit for Wrexhamites being represented in a Greater Flintshire. One benefit would be that Leighton Andrews would only need to engage with 6,7,8,11 local authorities, rather than 22. Some argue why not go the whole way and have 1 local authority administered from Cardiff Bay – now that would create a large saving.
“99Dylan Jones” – your comments on the various pan north Wales collaborative workings amongst the six various authorities is a valid one and does show that at certain levels of service delivery there are clear benefits on LA’s pooling resources. I assume whatever outcome faces local authorities in north Wales, such regional arrangements will be left alone.
You are right to say the option of voluntary mergers was not on the table back in August [if my memory serves me right] but even if it had I don’t think it would of changed the minds of any of the elected members in attendance at the workshops, especially knowing that the Welsh Government cannot put a figure to the cost of reorganisation or clarity on is it local ratepayers who will pick up the tab or the Welsh Government.
GwR is the pan north Wales body which has been charged with school inspections, with a view to driving up educational attainment by way of sharing best teaching practices etc. Over the recent past, pass rates at Key Stage 4 Level 2 inclusive have improved in Wrexham, be it from a low base and at a rate which needs to be accelerated.
Why have Flintshire out performed Wrexham in KS4 L2inc exam pass rates? I have no empirical evidence to prove it but maybe it is because Flintshire’s has a higher percentage of secondary schools which have sixth-forms, may be one reason, maybe they focus their efforts on English and Maths at the expense of pass rates in all subjects, maybe the number of capable children who are taught not out of county is lower in Flintshire [this is an issue of historical standing in Wrexham e.g. pupils go to Castell Alun in Flintshire, Dinas Bran in Denbighshire and the recent trend of them going to Bishop Heber. A drain of our local talent which I would argue has an impact on comparison percentages.
We also have two secondary schools in Wrexham which are currently in special measures. From my experience as a governor at one of them. I believe this has focused hearts and minds in ensuring better educational attainment for all of our pupils, which was demonstrated by our much improved pass rates in August; for two years on the run we have provided added value by exceeding our Fischer Family Trust targets.
“Wxm” – your points are valid and I fully agree that the destiny of Wrexham would be easier to defend as a standalone authority if our economic standing was better placed.
“JaneJ” – individuals who stand as Independent candidates in local elections do so because they wish to see the best outcomes for their own community and this is a common bond.
To make a difference though such individuals do come together to form Groups which are willing to work for the common good of all. The group I am a member of is no different.
My observations of political party members at the Guildhall, is many have their differences of opinions which they happily express in a public domain and clearly many do it behind closed doors which has resulted in ten councillors recently leaving a party which many had been loyal members of for all of their working lives.
As for manifestos well I’m happy for mine to be “the application of common-sense in the pursuit of what is best for the people of Wrexham and for the reputation of Wrexham”.
The point I make is non-politically aligned councillors are no bad thing for Wrexham.
Apologies if I have omitted to answer anyone directly. I promise to get back to you on the questions I have posed.
Bye the way the points I have made are mine and mine alone.
Cllr Phil Wynn
@PhilWynn 17583 wrote:
…
“Wxm” – your points are valid and I fully agree that the destiny of Wrexham would be easier to defend as a standalone authority if our economic standing was better placed.
Cllr Phil Wynn
The reality surely points out that WCBC has not worked? It is described as inward looking, and Wrexham’s economic output has fallen considerably in the last two decades. Schools that are in special measures, once they fall behind, it is a whole generation that is affected, and takes a generation to correct.
Wrexham was in Denbighshire from 1535 to 1974, and one theory is that that broad social and economic mix served the whole of the people and that geography well.
Wrexham cannot compete with bigger and better serviced locations such as Cheshire, and Wirral (and Liverpool and Manchester) and has to define what it will be in the future, and how it will do this (for example, the analysis of Wrexham puts it into a successful market town category, and not a city as has been repeatedly proposed). Dangerously, every year that goes by and this debate continues, other towns and cities and counties who are focused grow stronger and are more appealing to communities and consumers.
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