Markets Revamp

[Rob]

Daily Post have published tomorrows frontpage which says stallholders are unhappy with the plans for an arts centre. Its only the preview grab so no details on why they dont like the idea.

[Adam]

@Alunh 12438 wrote:

Many others have their own justifiable points to make and all should be looked at in the round. Whilst Consultants may well have some extremely good points to make, many of the problems that they will identify (and charge exorbitantly for looking at) will be so basic that it insults us all that they should be pointed out. Again, in fairness, there is a role of a Specialist turnaround Company and I hope the Borough really benefits from the spend

Paying £xx to a consultancy to confirm what is obvious to many could be forgiven if the sensible recommendations were carried through, however, paying £xx only to then petulantly dismiss options that could spark a turnaround can not be ignored.

In summary, Wednesdays review meeting will go something along the lines of:

“Following an internal review of the Wrexham Markets beginning last summer and the engagement of an external consultancy firm with a proven track-record at the cost of £x, we have decided to have a bit of a tidy up. Maybe do some painting. Oh and we’ll finally get rid of those trees growing out of the top of the General Market… everybody happy? Great. To Cafe Nero…!”

This all reminds me of the Mary Portas series last year where council officials would doggedly defy that any changes were needed with the backdrop of boarded up shops..

[99DylanJones]

I still would like people to think through one of my earlier posts which was for the traders to take over a shop for multiple occupancy themselves so that they fully determine their destiny. They could move to a number of units that have more footfall than the markets and would be able to do this within a matter of a few weeks compared with the Council Plans that don’t even have the funds in place yet to implement what ever their decision is.
If there is a major delay in obtaining funds how many of the stall holders will actually still be in existence in 18 months.
I would urge all market holders to act NOW and don’t even wait to see the Councils plans come to fruition. You would probably have to move anyway when /if the refurbishment work commenced-where would you be relocated.

[Adam]

@99DylanJones 12445 wrote:

I still would like people to think through one of my earlier posts which was for the traders to take over a shop for multiple occupancy themselves so that they fully determine their destiny. They could move to a number of units that have more footfall than the markets and would be able to do this within a matter of a few weeks compared with the Council Plans that don’t even have the funds in place yet to implement what ever their decision is.
If there is a major delay in obtaining funds how many of the stall holders will actually still be in existence in 18 months.
I would urge all market holders to act NOW and don’t even wait to see the Councils plans come to fruition. You would probably have to move anyway when /if the refurbishment work commenced-where would you be relocated.

But markets should create footfall not have to rely on it. If people are not making the very short detours from the main street then there is clearly a problem with what the markets are offering.

Using unoccupied space sounds appealing but when you dig down into the practical detail of building the stalls, routing electricity, complying with building regs etc it is not as straightforward as it may appear.

[jimbow]

@BenjaminM 12429 wrote:

It is indeed an honour to read the comments of experts on this thread whose range of knowledge extends from estate management to lift specifications. Quite frankly, some of the comments and suggestions made would hardly meet the requirements of running a whelk stall let alone than a multi million pound organisation.

Far from being the expert,nevertheless I am entitled to have an opinion.Are you advocating that only consultants should post on here.I notice you do not come up with any ideas to revamp the markets.Most of your posts contain sarky remarks about other posters.

[Alunh]

@99DylanJones 12445 wrote:

I still would like people to think through one of my earlier posts which was for the traders to take over a shop for multiple occupancy themselves so that they fully determine their destiny. They could move to a number of units that have more footfall than the markets and would be able to do this within a matter of a few weeks compared with the Council Plans that don’t even have the funds in place yet to implement what ever their decision is.
If there is a major delay in obtaining funds how many of the stall holders will actually still be in existence in 18 months.
I would urge all market holders to act NOW and don’t even wait to see the Councils plans come to fruition. You would probably have to move anyway when /if the refurbishment work commenced-where would you be relocated.

Great idea!

[Alunh]

@BenjaminM 12439 wrote:

You are not very keen on anyone expressing an opinion that differs from your own, are you? Not the first time you have called me patronising. My posts are clear in meaning and intent without having the need to resort to florid plagiarisms.
And thank you for your enlightening potted C.V.
I have an inherent distrust of comments made that are either pure conjecture or those made from a partisan viewpoint.
As oft is your wont to cite quotations in your posts, let me give you a quote to savour, which may illustrate my point :-
“People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices.” Adam Smith. The Wealth of Nations.
I have far greater respect for the advice obtained from a specialist third party ( who have only their fee and reputation to maintain) than from people who may know a little about a lot but lack the in depth knowledge to realise full potential from a situation.

I’ll ignore the first part……..but I do actually agree about Consultants. I suspect you are missing two points here.

Firstly, all Wrexham contributors who have a take on the Markets make an invaluable contribution because only by listening to them will we come to a measured conclusion. For some, they are out customers.

Secondly, I am not criticising any of your observations on the Markets which I may or may not agree with, merely the references to whelk stall owners and other dismissive comments

(PS I inserted a ooba-potted CV because you seem dismissive of opinions stating that you were fairly fed up of people expressing opinions with no particular grounding to do so. I do so reluctantly and specifically because of the observation you make)

[Alunh]

@Rob 12443 wrote:

Daily Post have published tomorrows frontpage which says stallholders are unhappy with the plans for an arts centre. Its only the preview grab so no details on why they dont like the idea.

I suspect that their reasoning is spot on. They have individually (and collectively) noted the traders who have left the People’s Market in the last few years. In Bank Street, there are now 3 such traders (one a Pet Shop, one a Nostalgia/CD shop and one a Hairdressers). Each were located either within or proximate to the People’s Market. Each has left because there are cheaper alternatives in better locations. A combination of cost and perceived footfall (and other matters) have been the prime drivers of this. Incidentally, all round the town, there are now former traders from the People’s Market, most (though not all) who have followed the same rationale.

To replace these traders the Council has struggled and has called in a Turnaround specialist in Market matters. The recent Consultancy exercise (I believe) actually pointed out that Rents were LOW!! in the People’s Market. In a sense they are and the Consultants are correct. Indeed, there are shops located within a few hundred yards of this Market which will be paying far more per square foot.

Unfortunately, the phrase “low rents” has obscured some truths in the current scenario. Rents are low because demand for stalls has evaporated. Demand has evaporated because over a decade, there has been no Investment in the Markets. Now, of course, we read that much needed Investment will occur and, with it, I trust that demand will be restored. In the SHORT TERM, however, those traders who have left and those prospective traders who are looking to invest in a business are (quite rightly) renting within the town…….where Rents are also LOW.

Now here’s the problem. Because the Council are prepared to invest yet because the demand for units in the People’s Market is low, the Council are scrambling round for a fix- a quick fix. The idea of an Arts Component is an understandable (though unwise) quick fix. What it will do is blur whatever identity the Markets might have and still not attract to the People’s Market traders who fit in with the profile of a Market. The traders want policies in play in the People’s Market that bring in Food retailers, Hardware retailers, Stationary retailers, Games retailers, etc. In the short term this means offering new traders medium term attractive packages (short term is no good because a good trader will have to invest substantially in refurbishment).

In fairness, I am confident that Peter Scott and Amanda know this and improvements will follow

[Alunh]

@BenjaminM 12439 wrote:

I have an inherent distrust of comments made that are either pure conjecture or those made from a partisan viewpoint.
As oft is your wont to cite quotations in your posts, let me give you a quote to savour, which may illustrate my point :-
“People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices.” Adam Smith. The Wealth of Nations.(QUOTE)

Nice piece of Adam Smith conjecture there Benjamin………oops……sorry….I forgot……you don’t do conjecture.

There would be absolutely NO point having a Forum for local people Benjamin if we didn’t do conjecture. It’s called having a viewpoint…….and as I’ve told you before……viewpoints are like A++++++s, we all have one.

[BenjaminM]

jimbow, of course I am not advocating that only consultants should post on here as valid ideas and suggestions have and are being made on a whole range of topics on this forum.
With regard to this particular thread, the most sensible contribution to my mind, has been made by Adam who states:
“Markets should create footfall not have to rely on it. I people are not making the very short detours from the Main Street then there is a clear problem with what the market is offering”
It is very easy to blame WCBC for all the ills apparently befalling market traders but it is in the market traders hands to provide the product that customers want, the aesthetics of the building to my mind is a fudging irrelevance.

With some small exceptions,the markets generally offer low priced, low quality product that customers do not find it lucrative to deviate from established footfall routes to visit.
With regard to the references made in this thread to the Consultants report stating the obvious, it is necessary on occasions to state the obvious as they are all too frequently overlooked, and therefore the foundation of the solution is built on sand.

Unless there is a fundamental change in what traders are offering, irrespective of the cosmetic changes envisaged, the demise of the markets in Wrexham is a prospect for the short to mid term rather than having any semblance of a long term future.

[Author]

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