Markets Revamp
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Posts
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@99DylanJones 12421 wrote:
Errors in consultants reports and not questioned by Councilors or officers– look at the Plas Madoc report it stated no disabled lift when there has been one there for 20 years. Food outlets — plenty of sandwich trade and pub food but no restaurant in town for a meal apart from a few mainly Chinese/Indian.
The Group looking into taking over Plas Madoc had a separate survey conducted which had a different view of the building state on nearly every point.
Why do the Council persistently pay for these consultant reports when they are supposed to be employing their own experts..Probably because they produce the results the Council wants.
Do we need Consultants to tell us this.General Market Income £21,183 for 2142 sq ft= £9-89 per sq ft rent. Butchers Market Income £87,905 for 5,900 sq ft=£14-90 per sq ft rent.Peoples Market Income not disclosed.Peoples Market half empty.Move General traders into Peoples,where the Council can get a better return than the £9-89 sq ft rent they received from the General Market.Re let the General at a better rent than was obtained before.The Peoples Market now could attract more footfall with the added traders.This is not rocket science,but nobody in the Council will make a constructive decision to do this.WCBC keep faffing around,getting nowhere,whilst the market problems still remain.
It is indeed an honour to read the comments of experts on this thread whose range of knowledge extends from estate management to lift specifications. That is to say, a little knowledge of everything, but it would appear, mastery of none.
Where has the Council ever stated that it has ‘experts’ in every discipline under the sun?
The topic in question is a one off project, that to be successful, needs the input of people who are specialists in that particular field.
It with some disdain that I read the comment “probably because they produce the results the Council wants” when replying to 99Dylan’s comments regarding the alternate report carried out at Plas Madoc where the implication is that theirs must be the correct interpretation. Or maybe it is because that it what the Group wanted? We may never know!
A number of years ago, I was advising on the implementation of ISO 9000 (Quality Systems) in commercial and industrial organisations. Why? Because the depth of in house knowledge was insufficient to complete the task effectively- so they bought in. Result – successful registration!
It is very similar to visiting a GP, who has a broad spectrum of knowledge, but for something more serious, refers you to a specialist with in depth knowledge, ie a CONSULTANT.
Quite frankly, some of the comments and suggestions made would hardly meet the requirements of running a whelk stall let alone than a multi million pound organisation.BenjaminM,
I do not propose that I am an expert,but having read the Consultants report,I believe that there is nothing in that Report that a bit of common sense would not have revealed.Going back to around 2006 there was a vote of no confidence in the Councils Property Services,to run the Markets,but unfortunately the Council took no notice.So here we are 8 years later, still,with similar problems to what we had in those days.Perhaps we could yet see you in the Market on your whelk stall.;)Whenever there are ‘professionals’ involved there are often two views– if a computer can’t access the internet how often has a computer shop blamed the Internet Provider and the Internet Provider blamed the computer supplier. Yes different ‘sides’ will often have differing views – in the case of Plas Madoc though the Council had a consultants report based on a specific brief – a closure programme. The new Trust had an independent person but was actually accompanied by the Councils own surveyor.
There is a place for a consultant in certain circumstances but and that is a very BIG BUT the brief should be of a neutral nature and not one which is about gathering evidence to meet a pre determined outcome to fulfill a particular view that the Council have even before any form of consultation has taken place.How many people on this forum are ordinary members of the Wrexham public, because I get the feeling I am in the minority…:D:confused:
@MP1953 12435 wrote:
How many people on this forum are ordinary members of the Wrexham public, because I get the feeling I am in the minority…:D:confused:
In one way or another we are all ordinary members of the public. Some will have more knowledge on some topic areas than another. From what I can gather, all share a love of the town and a concern for its future
@BenjaminM 12429 wrote:
It is indeed an honour to read the comments of experts on this thread whose range of knowledge extends from estate management to lift specifications. That is to say, a little knowledge of everything, but it would appear, mastery of none.
Where has the Council ever stated that it has ‘experts’ in every discipline under the sun?
The topic in question is a one off project, that to be successful, needs the input of people who are specialists in that particular field.
It with some disdain that I read the comment “probably because they produce the results the Council wants” when replying to 99Dylan’s comments regarding the alternate report carried out at Plas Madoc where the implication is that theirs must be the correct interpretation. Or maybe it is because that it what the Group wanted? We may never know!
A number of years ago, I was advising on the implementation of ISO 9000 (Quality Systems) in commercial and industrial organisations. Why? Because the depth of in house knowledge was insufficient to complete the task effectively- so they bought in. Result – successful registration!
It is very similar to visiting a GP, who has a broad spectrum of knowledge, but for something more serious, refers you to a specialist with in depth knowledge, ie a CONSULTANT.
Quite frankly, some of the comments and suggestions made would hardly meet the requirements of running a whelk stall let alone than a multi million pound organisation.Very patronising Benjamin. Jimbow, for example, far from being a lift expert or estates manager or whelk stall operative is one of the most experienced members of the retail fraternity in Wrexham. He has run a business for decades and knows markets backwards. He also has a huge respect for the Markets manager who used to run Wrexham Markets (Ken Barney)and who had a fairly full stall let.
I’m no expert on Markets having only been in one for a brief period (2006-13) but I have a reasonable Educational background (to Masters level), close to 40 years retail experience and have signed leases on some 13 different commercial premises over the years. I have also had the interesting experience of liquidating a Company with all of the illuminating steps involved.
Oddly enough, I chose to step outside my own comfort zone and I actually presented a potted version of the last Government Report on markets to Wrexham Council’s Economic Development Team some 2 years ago. This was the product of an All Party Committee on Markets and good/bad Market practice. The National Market Traders Federation are also great proponents of much of this Report and many of the suggestions that have been raised by a range of contributors on this debate come straight out of the blueprint.
In fairness to the Council, the current team looking at the Markets have come to the table very late in the day. It is hard to reverse the decline and there remains a tricky culture within both the authority and the traders to navigate.
Many others have their own justifiable points to make and all should be looked at in the round. Whilst Consultants may well have some extremely good points to make, many of the problems that they will identify (and charge exorbitantly for looking at) will be so basic that it insults us all that they should be pointed out. Again, in fairness, there is a role of a Specialist turnaround Company and I hope the Borough really benefits from the spend
You are not very keen on anyone expressing an opinion that differs from your own, are you? Not the first time you have called me patronising. My posts are clear in meaning and intent without having the need to resort to florid plagiarisms.
And thank you for your enlightening potted C.V.
I have an inherent distrust of comments made that are either pure conjecture or those made from a partisan viewpoint.
As oft is your wont to cite quotations in your posts, let me give you a quote to savour, which may illustrate my point :-
“People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices.” Adam Smith. The Wealth of Nations.
I have far greater respect for the advice obtained from a specialist third party ( who have only their fee and reputation to maintain) than from people who may know a little about a lot but lack the in depth knowledge to realise full potential from a situation.@MP1953 12435 wrote:
How many people on this forum are ordinary members of the Wrexham public, because I get the feeling I am in the minority…:D:confused:
I’m getting a mental image of a H.M. Bateman cartoon with the caption “The man who admitted to being an ordinary member of the Wrexham public”
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