How Would You Think Different ? Council To Plug £30mil Hole

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    @thewayneinspain 4514 wrote:

    This is proposterous and anyone who believes this lives in cloud cuckoo land.

    Now I love tablets, I love laptops and computers… but…

    ipads are good for reading ebooks, but they are absolutely useless for reference work in meetings. Why you ask? Because humans need to cross reference in meetings quickly, but they can only remember between 5 and 9 bits of information at any one time… ask any pyschologist. That means the need to look at different sources of information at anyone time. Now looking at three pages at once on a ipad is clunky, clumsy and difficult. Whether it’s very easy with three sheets of paper.

    The only thing that is proposterous is you you dinosaur. A tablet device is easy to use for cross referencing.


    Welsh Dresser

    Oh dear, you are in a bad mood. Smile sweetie, it doesn’t hurt….much


    djrus;4608 wrote:
    The only thing that is proposterous is you you dinosaur. A tablet device is easy to use for cross referencing.

    why is there a need to aggressive?

    My opinion is formed on studies into how the working memory of a person works. It’s the same principle on why people shouldn’t drive and use their mobile phone.You may be blessed with being able to process a lot of bits of information all at once and good for you that you can (you could make an excellent airforce pilot) but most people can’t.

    But there is still no need to be aggressive.



    What a load of psycho babel! And you shouted down the previous post not me so take some back!


    djrus;4623 wrote:
    What a load of psycho babel! And you shouted down the previous post not me so take some back!

    Again, why the need to be aggressive?



    Just out of interest. Why are you so bothered when you live in Spain? We pay taxes to this country you don’t so your opinion of Wrexham goings on is somewhat irrelevant. In other words go away!


    Welsh Dresser

    @djrus 4626 wrote:

    Just out of interest. Why are you so bothered when you live in Spain? We pay taxes to this country you don’t so your opinion of Wrexham goings on is somewhat irrelevant. In other words go away!

    Wow you are a tiger! The forums are for Wrexhamites. No where does it state that the contributers must live in Wrexham. I was born and bred in Wrexham but if I moved to your neck of the woods I would still Welsh and not a Hobbit!
    By the way I am a kitten lol



    @jj4wxm 4606 wrote:

    Hi all, this is my first post so be gentle!
    I often browse the forum, but am not very social so don’t post. This time is different, as the subject of many of the posts was making my blood boil! I, like many of you, were thinking how dare they (councillors) get these devices for free when all other useful services (like kerbcraft mentioned on the forum) are under threat or are cut, and when everyone else has to buy them!
    The post from the wayneinspain tipped me over the edge – your posts do tend to get me all het up ;) -regarding an extra 17 iPads that might have been bought. I was thinking, “Who else has got one? They’ve all got their noses in the trough!”………have another pint, calm down a bit…… a bit more of the forum and feel the rage build up again!
    So, I decided to get on the Wrexham website and trawl through for some information – and trawl through I did! That website is not the easiest to navigate to get what you would think to be some easily accessible information. Who did they employ to create that monstrosity, a blind Bulgarian bricklayer?!? Anyway, I digress!
    I finally came across this beauty:
    Which looks like the report original report presented to one of the committees for the “Review of ICT Provision for Elected Members”.
    Now, I know that the figures bounded about were the back of the fag packet stuff using figures from the mis-leader – Wayne’s words not mine ;). But, this may be the drink talking, some of this made sense! No, seriously hear me out! I’m not taking the piss honestly!
    In the report, they quote that in 2011/2012 £36,000 was spent on printing of agendas and minutes for committee meetings for Elected Members and Senior Managers (don’t worry not typing all this in, copy and paste stuff). £36k, thirty six grand! WTF! The councillors also had (6 year old) laptops provided, with possible on costs being hinted at – I work in the Computing field and would assume that this is for licensing f products (Windows CAL licences, software assurance, security products etc). In addition, £4,320 per annum was spent on providing broadband for 24 members.
    So, in total over £40k a YEAR for councillors to get emails and printed agendas!
    The report looks to offer councillors one of three options, four if you’re a lead member by the look of it, and the implicit fifth (non of the above).
    1. An iPad @ £431 plus £20 per annum.
    2. A laptop @ £453 plus £50 per annum.
    3. Use your own mobile device with provided software @ £125 plus £20 per annum.
    4. (for lead members only) instead of option 1, a 3g iPad.
    Right, so got the figures. £431, seems expensive for an iPad! But, included in the price is a case and stylus and a “Secure Email Software” called Good @ £125 – that got me curious, what is Good? More later ;)
    So the breakdown is:
    Total of £431 – £125 = £306 for an iPad, case and stylus! I would think that £20 is about right for a case and stylus, so the iPad costs around £286ish. That’s not a bad price for an iPad, I would hazard a guess and think that they are probably iPad2 16Gb (WiFi only), so lowest of the range last year.

    , you’ve seen one of these devices, is that right?
    So, WTF is Good? After asking Google, I came across this:
    Good Technology
    It seems like a software version of Blackberry that allows you to lock/wipe the device if lost – sensible I suppose, imagine if Neil Rogers would have lost it instead of dropped it, there might be sensitive information on it.
    So, at £431 for 57 councillors is £24,567 minus the 2 who didn’t have them is £23,705.
    What’s interesting is by taking the broadband of those 24 members pays for these devices over a 5 year term. So any savings in printing is additional – hopefully earmarked for kerbcraft ;) Although with this lot I wouldn’t hold your breath!
    The big question is really should the members be paying for these devices out of their allowances! But that’s for a different topic – I need another beer!

    In the last Wrexham County accounts (to March 2012), Corporate & Democratic Core costs were £3,540,000. There are all sorts of other costs listed such as other operating expenditure £19,040,000.

    Somewhere in this, members allowances are over £1,000,000.

    While we now better understand the costs of ipad provision, we need to understand how the big money is spent.



    Stop paying £350:000 a year for those Pcsos.Total waste of money.Same faces all the time Riding around in Police vehicles thinking that they a real Police.That money could then be used to help with the shortfall.


    The first thing that I would do is put down all my kneejerk responses on paper (as have many others).

    When I had written down all the emotional stuff (say about laptops and tablets), I would get down to the detail. Some of the stuff that I had written down would probably be nonsense, others might be sound and cost effective.

    The main objective of the exercise is to either (a) generate more income or (b) spend less. Every action that I indulged in would have to be refracted through these considerations. Of course, as with everything, any net conclusions would have to be tempered by a number of considerations:

    What would be the medium or long term effect?
    What would be the social consequences?
    What represents the greater good for Wrexham?

    I would have a number of starting points to help shape my thinking:

    The Education budget is surely not being used in an optimal manner when the Secondary School results are factored in
    The running of Wrexham Markets appears to have been dreadful over time and there must be a more cost effective way of approaching this topic
    The Council should never undertake something that the Private sector could easily and more cost effectively undertake
    There are too seemingly too many properties owned by the Council and this needs addressing
    The Council appears to employ too many people
    Consultants should not be utilised at great cost if there are more cost effective alternatives available at local level

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