Councillors back plans to keep Ty Pawb in house as facility set to play key role in City of Culture bid

Councillors have backed plans to keep Ty Pawb ‘in house and council run, despite it being described by some as a ‘forced’ decision.

The Employment, Business and Investment Scrutiny Committee were digesting a short report from consultants CultureRunner, who had recommended Ty Pawb remains funded and operated by Wrexham Council for at least the next five years, otherwise it would be ‘at great risk of failure’. ‌

The reason for ruling out spinning the centre out, as has been long discussed, was that it basically could not run without the council support.

Councillors were told during yesterday’s meeting that the local authority would likely have to pump prime any spin off with a large wodge of cash as the building appears to soon require a large expenditure due to not being energy efficient.

Committee member Cllr Andy Gallanders appeared most narked at the scrawny report, calling the papers before councillors ‘lacking’,

Cllr Gallanders said ‘we have heard this before’ about improving Ty Pawb and asked: “What’s going to change to get it to a position where it can be deliverable by an outside source?”

Cllr Hugh Jones called Ty Pawb ‘a beacon’ and appeared content with the course it is on: “The report clearly indicates that there is the potential with a Cultural Trust being established in Wrexham, along with the City of Culture bid to look at that other delivery model over a period of time.

“What we have in Ty Pawb is something that is hugely successful and is recognised both nationally and internationally as I’ve already said, as a beacon in Wrexham. Yes, there’s work to do in terms of improving, but we are making progress.

“We have come out of a pandemic and we continue to deliver and what we deliver is something which is quite unique.

“I think we deliver art and culture to the highest possible national and international standard. At the same time we deliver something that is working in and with the community, I mentioned particularly the work that takes place in mental health and wellbeing involvement of young people.

“There’s a huge community involvement, and so I don’t believe that we can do anything other than what we’re building or what we currently have, in order to take Ty Pawb to the next stage.”

Cllr Gallanders went on to praise the art and community work the council centre does, however added: “From the delivery model point of view I have got to say the success of a Ty Pawb surely has to be with pounds in the pocket and with a financially stable organisation involved.

“Sadly, in this report, we don’t see the footfall figures. We don’t see the feedback from the traders. We don’t see any other option of delivery. I think that’s a real shame.”

Cllr Hugh Jones pointed to the options overview in the report, stating “We’re in partnership with the Advisory Board which consists of two traders and they are fully endorsing the report that we have here today”

On the finances he added: “You talk about pounds and pence, and yes it is important that we have a financially stable footprint on which to operate but it also needs to take into account the sort of things that I’ve been talking about in terms of a well being, in terms of our ability to reach out to communities across the county borough, in terms of taking art and culture and bringing them into into Ty Pawb.

“The sort of work that you do in terms of mental health and well being in particular, is something that you can’t put pounds shillings and pence on.”

Bravely clad in a long sleeved top on the hottest day of the year, Cllr Gallanders fired back via the Chairman, “Can I check that Councillor Jones has the same report that we have? Because he’s mentioned some really amazing stuff here that isn’t in the document that we’ve been sent.”

Cllr Jones then read out the options overview in the report.

Cllr Gallanders sarcastically praised Cllr Jones, “Thank you, Councillor Jones. You’re right. That is a very well read. However, we only have one thing to vote on here today, and that is it remaining in house. We don’t have any other options provided to us in that report.”

A more chilled Cllr Hugh Jones gave a quick overview of how the report came about, that the Advisory Board was tasked with coming up with an option for future delivery of Ty Pawb and that this was the output.

Matter-of-factly he pointed out the failure for wider options happened elsewhere and was in the power of the committee itself he said: “All I am saying is I am charged with coming forward with a recommendation to the Executive Board and to Scrutiny.

“I’m coming forward with that recommendation. If you want a different recommendation, that’s entirely up to you, and it’s a matter for this committee which I shouldn’t be influencing. That’s my recommendation.”

Cllr Marc Jones took over the baton and echoed comments around the lack of information: “What is lacking in this report is concrete evidence that things would be better this particular way rather than the other three options that were put on the table.”

Cllr Marc Jones said it was ‘disappointing’ to discover Ty Pawb’s lack of energy efficiency, but said it was beyond the committee to discover more on what went wrong with what is a relatively recently refurbished building that is now apparently expensively not up to requirements: “Five years ago we were looking at opening this building we’d have been thinking about the energy efficiency of a building, we knew there were problems with climate change and energy efficiency back then.”

Cllr Hugh Jones later explained there was no costings nor scope of the works required, “We don’t have the answer yet. We don’t know how exactly we’re going to make it more energy efficient. What we do know is that we have to do it.”

Cllr Marc Jones added on his disappointment on the contents of the report and single option, adding: “There has been an awful lot of information conveyed orally in this meeting which isn’t in the report.

“I think it’s really difficult to take in all that information when you’re expecting to talk about a very direct and pretty binary choice really.:

Cllr Dana Davies described the report as ‘a bit back to front’ and spoke for several minutes about how Ty Pawb fits in with a wider council plan and bid for City of Culture, pointing to expectations that an external model could maximise grant bidding and benefit from possible charitable status and the resultant benefits from business rates.

Cllr Davies added: “What we’re basically saying here is the council’s priority of the City of Culture 2029 the current in house model really strongly supports that.”

Cllr Hugh Jones pointed out that Wrexham is just 18 months away from the bid for the 2029 City of Culture, and was looking for “a period of stability in order to be able to frame and shape that bid”, compared to a quick six month run up to the last bid.

Cllr Hugh Jones added about the interim City of Culture board that was recently announced, that will see a new board emerge, and that they could then hold the key to Ty Pawb “We hope within the next 12 months to be in a position to have the Board in place, that will be the body, because that board consists of people from the arts and culture world across Wales and business people with a significant amount of business experience. They will be able to have their input into this future delivery model based on a hugely broad experience that they have.”

The committee agreed to “recognise that the recommendation fits within the council’s priorities”, to keep Ty Pawb in house.

Cllr Gallanders tried to add a request for further information that was used to assess all other options, however was told by Cllr Hugh Jones all the information was before councillors and no editing had taken place, “This is the full report that officers and myself have received – and the advisory board”.

The matter will also be taken to the Executive Board for formal political backing, after now being effectively endorsed and theoretically probed by the independent Scrutiny process.

Cllr Gallanders also picked up a line in the report we noted about media influencing political decisions, which also uncovered the fact the Chair of the meeting Cllr Tina Mannering had not read or perhaps fully digested the 16 page consultants report before the committee.

Cllr Gallanders firmly stated: “I would like to make a wider comment about something within this report which worried me to be honest.

“It was regarding the the comments about the communication that the press had, and the articles that the press did that would influence political decisions. I will tell anyone in this room right now. Not having the information leads my political view.”

The Chair said they “haven’t been privy to that statement” – with Cllr Gallanders giving the page number, prompting a shuffling of papers and what looked like a quick read through from the top table.

Cllr Hugh Jones said the consultants report was the views of the consultants and he would not be swayed by ‘negative stories’.

Eagle eyed committee members and council officers would have noted the consultants had credited that section of the report as being ‘adapted’ from “an opportunity for change, exploring the trust option for museum services”.

That appears to be this report in Yorkshire from 2018 – with the section looking very similar to what was before councillors – with York famously sharing negative stories with Wrexham and political influence.

eg.

…and wrexham’s version (more here)

The committee will now look at the performance of Ty Pawb in October.