Council will ‘actively chase’ trader debts in loss making Ty Pawb with claims refurb was done on the cheap

Political leadership at Wrexham Council have been indirectly challenged over the future support and direction of Ty Pawb, with Labour noting the budget gap is effectively the same as “1% Council Tax”.

Members of the Employment, Business and Investment Scrutiny Committee had previously met and expressed they were “very, very concerned” over Ty Pawb’s finances.

There had been growing concerns over the viability of the council run centre, with the wider council cuts making the issue more politically charged than ever.

The committee met again to discuss the requested ‘Ty Pawb Performance Update’ report covering 2022/23.

A range of actions have already been taken, including “Reviewing the thermostatic controls to ensure optimisation of energy efficiency”:

Traders will shortly be given new trading costs for the centre, after Wrexham Council conducted market research within a fifty mile radius to benchmark rates.

The committee looked at the finance information provided, with debt from traders is still an issue, with ‘active recovery’ taking place by a council team.

Bad debts and lack of proper agreements appear persistent despite the issues having occurred historically at Ty Pawb, with the meeting told, “Last week, for example, one trader paid a debt of £6000. So we have identified most of that debt and we’re in the process of that recovery at the moment. In terms of the traders agreements, we are reviewing all of those agreements to have full agreements in place for the end of the financial year for moving into next year. We do have a situation where not all of the traders were on full agreements. So we’re rectifying that, but we are chasing all of the debt as best we can.”

A Chief Officer detailed how more resources are being put into the centre, with a senior project manager “effectively parachuted in” with some other members of the staff, “…who are going through the debt collection, they are reviewing the operations of Ty Pawb, root and branch. They’re reporting directly to me.

“So some of the issues that you will no doubt want to talk about in terms of debt recovery, in terms of tenancy agreements, in terms of car parking arrangements and in terms of energy efficiency. That group is working through all of those issues as we speak.”

The Officer was asked about the bad debts, and said “Am I concerned about it? Well, I’m concerned about any any debt that we’re owed, particularly in the financial climate that we find ourselves at the moment. That’s why we’re taking it very seriously.

“So we’ve transferred staff from other areas to specifically chase that down. As I said earlier, with with with some success.

“Some of the debts, smaller debts, and there is a tipping point in terms of when it becomes efficient to chase a debt. So the very smallest of debts whether we like it or not, it’s not cost efficient to to chase that, particularly if the trader is no longer there and it’s a very, very small debt, but there are some larger debts and we are chasing those actively at the moment.

“We will continue to actively chase that debt and that potentially will result in evictions, if people don’t pay the money that the council is due. We are not running a charity at Ty Pawb. Our agreement with the traders is a transactional agreement and that needs honouring.

The meeting also had an exchange between Cllr Hugh Jones who spoke as is now usual about the ‘added social value’ of the centre, “Those things as everybody knows, are very difficult to put a financial value on, but they are nonetheless incredibly important. When we go into Ty Pawb we see the sort of work that’s been done with community groups, work done with Welsh language, working with a whole raft of community groups. The advantage that they get in terms of their quality of life is not necessarily something that you can put pounds, shillings and pence against.”

Cllr Dana Davies fired back, “What I want is confidence that we are running Ty Pawb efficiently and effectively, because as we go through that forecast that we had in the January report, technically, between the cash limited budget and the overspend, we’re looking at 1% Council Tax aren’t we?”

“A lot of that social value around Ty Pawb is the political will, and the political support. I don’t think we can get to the point of having a really debatable discussion around whether there’s political support around the social value of what it’s delivering for the borough, if we haven’t got confidence that the service is being run efficiently.”

The Chief Officer gave a stark but positive assessment, “As Chief Officer I am not sat here saying that Ty Pawb in the last last year or so has been managed in the most efficient manner, we’ve highlighted a number of issues.

“My role as Chief Officer is to make sure that it is run in an efficient manner. Am I happy at the moment with the way it has been run? No, I’m not.

“Could it be run better? Yes, it could. Definitely.

“We have put the team in place, we now understand where the failings are and how we can go about improving them. I have met with certain groups of members, and we’ve talked about what those shortcomings have been, around car parking arrangements, around energy, around some of the tenancy agreements and the like.

“Could we do better on that? Yes, yes, we could, and we will do better. There’s a 16 point plan if you run through that, that pretty much highlights what those problems are, and what we’re going to do about it.

“It is easy for me to come here and say, ‘we’re going to do it’, the proofs in the pudding, isn’t it? We’re confident that we’ve got the right people in place now.

“I’m confident that we will get this right. Will we do it in a fortnight? No, we won’t. It’s going to take some time to implement all of the improvement measures that we’ve identified. ”

The meeting was told that the centre having been open a number of years is in some areas ‘a bit tired’ and ‘some of the facilities are failing’.

The original multi million pound award winning redevelopment of Ty Pawb was also raised in the meeting, with Cllr Dana Davies asking if it was done ‘on the cheap’ with the revelation that the floors walls and roof were not known to be insulated, and now raises ‘massive questions’ on insulations and improvements.

Cllr Hugh Jones appeared to bat some of the blame back to councillors in the room, ” I think everybody will remember that the initial proposals for Ty Pawb was subject to several meetings and scrutiny committees went through the detail, went through those plans in great detail.

“I hold my hand up and say, yes, it was done as at the most cost effective way that we felt was appropriate at the time. Energy costs weren’t of the nature that they are now, we hadn’t declared a climate emergency.

“We’re talking about probably 2015 2016 when the building planning was done, and hindsight is a wonderful thing.”

Cllr Marc Jones chipped in, “It sounds like we had an admission that things were done on the cheap and a trick was missed. I guess what we need to ensure is that the lessons are learned going forward? Because we were putting solar panels on council houses in 2012. So why weren’t solar panels being put on Ty Pawb in 2018?

“I’m just wondering how we missed that, because we have an energy intensive gallery there. People knew that back then. And yet, it didn’t seem to have crossed anyone’s mind to try and be as energy efficient as possible.”

Speaking more widely about the council and energy, Cllr Jones revealed, “I’ve been having conversations with school heads, and they’re discussing the huge disparities in standing charges. Some are paying six pounds a day, others are paying 22 pounds a day. That brings huge energy bill variations between schools. So you know, given the council’s purchasing power, why aren’t we getting a better deal?”

A figure of £500k was mentioned for the cost of installing solar panels on Ty Pawb’s roof, with Cllr Dana Davies batting the direction of that towards the administration of the council, asking “There is a political decision there isn’t it? Do we want solar panels on a roof that hopefully is gonna get fixed? Or do we develop into a rooftop garden?”.

(The 16 point plan)

The committee will keep monitoring Ty Pawb, and are expecting an update in six months on the 16 point plan to improve / mitigate issues at the centre. They also requested easier to understand financial figures, as well as details on the energy efficiency action plans.