Wrexham MP votes…

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  • #162051

    zinger
    Participant

    It would have to be best of three.

    #162052

    TimRegency
    Participant

    Actually, there was a referendum in 1975 to join the EEC and it was made clear that it was more than just a trade organisation, so this argument that ‘they just want to keep having referendums until they get the result they want’ can be applied to leave supporters with equal, if not stronger, force.

    #162053

    IMHO
    Participant

    “Actually, there was a referendum in 1975 to join the EEC and it was made clear that it was more than just a trade organisation, so this argument that ‘they just want to keep having referendums until they get the result they want’ can be applied to leave supporters with equal, if not stronger, force.”

    Correction, the referendum in 1975 was to remain or not in the “common Market” as it was mainly pushed, not to join or not as we were already joined up without being asked.
    The last referendum was over 40 years ago so the remainers could at least have the decency to wait a similar time for a re-run, yes? No?

    #162056

    Matt
    Participant

    This entire Brexit saga could go on Ad infinitum. There’s just no leadership on the whole thing or a long term vision.

    Say we hit no deal – what is the 5 year, 10 year plan to return the country to prosperity? All I see is a bunch of fist punching in the air about Good old British spirit and how we’ll manage. Nobody has a plan – that is a terrifying prospect. People are willing to ride out with Mad old May just so she can see Brexit through, but what then? She’s failed to deliver now, so she’s not going to do a good job after. Then the general consensus seems to be that there’s nobody good enough to do anything in this country – that is peak disenfranchisement.

    Normally and historically when this happens some populist leader or movement rises up out of nowhere for better or worse and things go through rapid change. This has not happened this time.

    #162057

    limbo
    Participant
    #162063

    Ferret
    Participant

    This entire Brexit saga could go on Ad infinitum.

    A bit like this thread.

    #162064

    zinger
    Participant

    Matt: “Normally and historically when this happens some populist leader or movement rises up out of nowhere for better or worse and things go through rapid change,”

    Isn’t that what the Jeremy Corbyn Labour Government is?

    #162067

    Matt
    Participant

    Isn’t that what the Jeremy Corbyn Labour Government is?

    There’s a transformational element going on in Labour – which has allowed the party to resurge – hence the killing off of May’s majority in the last GE.

    However, the party itself is still very divided on ideals – there are too many centrists and Blairites who are not on the same page as the more socialist element of the party. With the likes of Chuka Umunna, Owen Smith etc… continuously frustrating everyone, chiming in and undermining from the back. Even Tony Blair is always there commenting, like a dirty old exiled War Criminal grandfather figure. With Labour, will have to wait and see.

    But I was also commenting on the lack of leader for Hard Brexit and a post No Deal environment. Farage gave it the Big-I-Am and then went off to do radio – showing he’s better suited for producing hot air than any real action. Conservatives had a chance to stick the right person in directly after Cameron resigned but bizarrely voted in a staunch remainer to push through Brexit. That doesn’t add up right? They also don’t have anyone within party with enough charisma or leadership to topple May – otherwise her leadership challenge would have ended her Premiership. You’ve got a choice of Mogg, Gove or Bonkers Boris who want Hard Brexit and none of them can endear themselves to all of their party or the public. On the right that leaves the utter lunatic fringe – Tommy Robinson and now Yellow Vest thug James Goddard has turned up out of the woodwork, although most people don’t have a clue who he is.

    It’s just a rogue’s gallery of comic book villains. What I want to know is where’s your Thatcher type, who would have just got the job done. I’m blaming a weakness in leadership on the right for the failure of Brexit.

    #162068

    IMHO
    Participant

    Matt: “Normally and historically when this happens some populist leader or movement rises up out of nowhere for better or worse and things go through rapid change,”

    zinger wrote;
    “Isn’t that what the Jeremy Corbyn Labour Government is>

    You forgot the smiley i think.

    • This reply was modified 4 months ago by  IMHO.
    #162071

    Truthbeknown
    Participant

    We were NEVER given a vote or referendum to join the EU. We were given a RETROSPECTIVE referendum to confirm membership of a trading entity the EEC. IT was never said that this would be any political, financial or military alliance. Ted Heath lied and said we wouldn’t lose any of our sovereignty, but kept the truth from us. Secret documents emerged 30 years later.

    Official document FCO 30/1048 actively welcomed Britain’s decline and Europe’s predominance. The briefing paper acknowledges that Britain would in time become little more than a puppet state of Brussels, after ceding judicial and executive powers to the EEC. But, instead of sounding alarm bells, the authors of the paper warned ministers to hide the truth from the British public.

    Arguably Britains entry into the EU was illegal, as our apparent entry was in violation of British law and was, therefore invalid.

    In enacting the European Communities Bill through an ordinary vote in the House of Commons, Ted Heath’s Government breached the constitutional convention which requires a prior consultation of the people (either by a general election or a referendum) on any measure involving constitutional change. The general election or referendum must take place before any related parliamentary debate. THIS DID NOT HAPPEN as Heath knew he could not win that referendum at that time as the public were against it. We joined the EEC in 1973 without a referendum on it THEN there was a RETROSPECTIVE pubic referendum in 1975 sold on a pack of lies.

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