Time for a Full Lockdown Now ?

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  • #198180
    AMA Express
    AMA Express
    Participant

    What exactly would you expect the Army to do ?

    #198189

    zinger
    Participant

    I quite like Spain’s idea of making a register of those who refuse the vaccine & sharing amongst other EU countries. Well done Australia too. We are far too lax in taking people to task for breaking covid rstrictions in this country & as a result governments don’t get the respect that they ought.

    #198210

    JaneJ
    Participant

    The use of the military in school settings is like putting putting a finger in a gaping hole in a dam. The provision of online support and not boots on the ground is hardly worth the effort but as a country our military capacity has changed so much as military personnel have been replaced by technological military might.

    With so many people off work on furlough surely some of them would want to contribute to their communities by offering to help in schools or support in non medical roles in hospitals.

    #198211

    Ioan y Ffin
    Participant

    “Sorry but lockdowns are not working, people are going to do what they want. Unless they make it illegal for people to move around unless its necessary it want work.”

    Are you saying
    a) lockdowns don’t work full stop?
    b) lockdowns don’t work because people ignore them and do what they want?
    c) lockdowns don’t work and people will do what they want because they think lockdowns don’t work (which they then use to justify their behaviour).
    d) If the Government makes it illegal to do what you want, then these same people will then change their behaviour and then the lockdown might work?

    how many people will actually change their behaviour if breaking the lockdown is made a criminal offence? and how likely is it that enough of these rule breakers would be caught or persuaded not to ignore the lockdown for fear of being caught to actually affect the efficacy of any lockdown? if someone wants to do something (that is evidently against their own medium and long term interest and the wider short, medium and long term interest) are they going to pay much attention to the law? probably not.

    #198212

    Matt
    Participant

    Making lists of people? Shaming them like they’ve done something wrong, like it’s some kind of nonce register or perhaps like Adolph’s Black Book. What does this list achieve, start restricting people’s human rights and prevent them from travelling or accessing services? Breeching privacy laws by sharing their confidential medical health situation. Creating fear if the lists were made public inciting discrimination, abuse and possibly even physical attacks.

    A thoroughly bad idea from Spain’s still Franco-fetishising Madrid Government.

    Sending in the Army on civilians, that went down well at Tonypandy, Bogside in Derry, Gunboats on the Mersey, Glasgow George Square. The army are not trained in unarmed civilian crowd control, their speciality is using lethal force against opponents in a hostile warzone.

    The above 2 uses of power are just not ones I’d recommend handing to the most right wing Westminster Government we’ve seen in years. We have a home secretary who wants to bring back the death penalty (a debate for another day). I’m not saying they wouldn’t work as a deterrent, I just don’t agree personally that they should be implemented.

    The police are the only ones with appropriate training in dealing with people appropriately in municipal areas. There seems to be some ridiculous pussyfooting going around from both lawmakers in all 4 UK countries and their police forces. If proper laws and proper enforcement would be put in place – joint up and coherent across all 4 nations then we wouldn’t have this problem.

    It’s quite simple, it’s impossible for the police to enforce and catch all speeders, drink drivers, mobile phone behind the wheel users yet there is sufficient enforcement and punishment that means most people are too fearful to break the law or believe that it’s the right thing to obey the rules. A combination of fines, jails and fear of not being able to drive ensures compliance and keeps road accidents due to carelessness and recklessness to a minimum.

    These well established rules and laws also provide the appropriate level of social shame for those caught out which also plays into reduction. As a passenger you wouldn’t want to get into a car with a speeding drink driver.

    Likewise if police actually patrolled areas and gave warnings for lax offences and fines for deliberate repeat offending Covidiots and perhaps a 2 week curfew or something for those who really cannot play by the rules (be a bit like a self isolation) then we’d see the numbers go down.

    As it stands now if I wanted to go to the pub for a drink or sit and eat in a restaurant or shop in non essential shops or meet up with 5 other people not from my household, or this is my favourite one – go to a sports event or exhibition with up to 2,000 people in attendance outdoors or 1,000 indoors. I can go to Shropshire completely unchallenged and do all these things.

    When all this is allowed to go on in Tier 2 areas of the UK, we can effectively say there are no real rules being enforced to restrict the spread of Covid. We are a single United country in theory, if Jack and Jim from Telford can do as they please then the rest of us just think well why can’t we where we live in the same country?

    Then if you don’t obey the basic set of rules for low risk things like going to non essential shops with a face mask on or not staying at home and travelling to a renote beauty spot with few people there. Then you get complacent and think we if I got away with that then I can start visiting all my friends and families in their homes.

    #198213

    Matt
    Participant

    I’ve detailed the police and Government’s roles in helping improve this dire situation we’re in, but there’s one other main culprit for this appalling lack of acceptance of the seriousness of pandemic’s spread and effect in the UK. That is the role of the mainstream media and Government backed stated media like the BBC.

    They have utterly failed in their reporting on Covid and played it down on every turn. Perhaps if they showed people on ventilators (those who have given permission of course) and reported on the unprecedented levels of ambulance stacking taking place at an alarming number of hospitals.

    Also the growing accounts from doctors and other healthcare professionals who state where they are working is on its knees with staffing hitting skeleton levels due to those being forced to self isolate and remaining staff hitting exhaustion.

    Also the number of people who have suddenly lost a wife, a child, a parent, a friend suddenly to Covid. I’m sorry but I’d see a sad memorial death post on social media about twice a month maximum before 2020. Now I see about 6+ of these posts every day.

    Don’t even get me started on the overall lack of reporting on the grave situation in care homes (we have some highlighted local situations) – those people dying are just mere statistics.

    Now the problem is, all this information I am seeing is via social media and each story treated individually is purely anecdotal (except perhaps when a paramedic has proof by posting the ambulance stack outside their hospital).

    However, taken as a big picture it is cause for concern. Can we logically draw the conclusion that a large swathe of Doctors – highly educated and we trust with our own health and make life and death judgement calls everyday are suddenly coming out and lying to us and cannot be trusted?

    Have mourning people all suddenly decided they want to seek attention this year in the Covid limelight and draw attention to the passing of loved ones, in something that can usually be considered a deeply private and family matter?

    These are questions we can ask, but the data and intelligence coming through social media channels is giving us a resounding picture of at least cause for concern. Yet because people put more weight and trust in established media sources and they are failing to report on these very serious issues (yet here’s 13 ways you can recycle your Christmas tree) people can be dismissive and view them as inauthentic and not to be of concern.

    Instead we see repeated media attacks on Nightingale Hospitals being empty that draw fire away from what is going on in actual hospitals. What a convenient distraction.

    We also see bullish we must soldier on as usual stories trying to cajole people into going out and spending money and taking risks they aren’t supposed to be economy and cash is king & especially in the land of the Murdoch Media Moguls where the Tories have already been bought and paid for.

    Teachers bullied and made pariahs because they can’t face schools closing because of the economic impact it would have if primary carers must take on their primary duty in life and actually stay at home and care for their children. SAGE advice stating schools should be closed also duly ignored.

    Other convenient stories saying don’t worry it’s only vulnerable and old people who die, the rest of you are Indestructible Masters of the Universe.

    This complete lack of responsibility from the press has helped open us into the situation we are in. UK 53,000 daily cases, Germany 15,000 and France, Spain, Italy at 11,000. What a complete fuster cluck.

    #198214

    JaneJ
    Participant

    There is a need for brutal honesty from Politicians or go back to the beginning of the pandemic when the scientists seem to have more control– this is from the Twitter fed on Wrexham.com can we really expect all our professional health workers to sustain the brutality of having to make decisions on the front line about who they treat and who just get palliative end of life care-
    what will be the criteria – age, single, other conditions. There is a real likelihood these decisions will have to be taken and the body bags will be mounting up in the morgue.

    “Staff are near burn out with lots of them showing signs of PTSD. I see nurses and doctors crying on the corridors before, during and after shifts. To anyone who says this is not real they need to be shown the inside of a Covid ITU or acute admissions ward.”

    #198262

    pastrylover
    Participant

    I bend the rules like everyone else- but you have to follow them to an extent as it’s not about looking after me- it’s protecting my mum. People who openly take the piss with rules are the ones that will give it to their parents

    #198334

    David Thomas
    Participant

    Wtf is going on, I see nothing but deserted streets.
    What happened to cause all these statements, who are these people who break guidelines and what have they all done?

    What can we do to break guidelines even, take a walk outdoors or go to Tesco as a family?

    Blood on our hands?

    #198348

    Matt
    Participant

    So on the anecdotal evidence that David has walked down a couple of streets when it is quiet there’s nothing to worry about. Carry on as normal everyone.

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