Shame on Councillors to refuse planning permission

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  • #145916

    Its all very well Atkinson calling everyone who objects to the ‘Accommodation’ Lets put him to the test ! There is a parcel of land in Gresford opposite the Plough that has been an eyesore and junkyard for years, let’s built the accommodation there in his ‘back yard’. Let him come out publicly and state that he would support such a project in Gresford. Let him come out and say he will actively work with the council to find land and accommodate this development in Gresford ! Following the Gresford project, there will be less grounds for councillors refusing or abstaining from similar plans in other areas. Put your ‘Money Where your Mouth is” and “What’s good for the Goose is good for the Gander” over to you Atkinson. GRESFORD FOR THE ACCOMMODATION.

    #145921

    The Speaking Truth
    Participant

    Its all very well Atkinson calling everyone who objects to the ‘Accommodation’ Lets put him to the test ! There is a parcel of land in Gresford opposite the Plough that has been an eyesore and junkyard for years, let’s built the accommodation there in his ‘back yard’. Let him come out publicly and state that he would support such a project in Gresford. Let him come out and say he will actively work with the council to find land and accommodate this development in Gresford ! Following the Gresford project, there will be less grounds for councillors refusing or abstaining from similar plans in other areas. Put your ‘Money Where your Mouth is” and “What’s good for the Goose is good for the Gander” over to you Atkinson. GRESFORD FOR THE ACCOMMODATION.

    Nothing has been said over objecting, it’s more about the comments made by a few elected members.

    #145922

    Council Watcher
    Participant

    The concentration clearly is on comments but the fact that it was turned down is still the point — the developer will do an appeal and as Cllrs Morris as Chair keeps referring that Council Members have a set criteria on which to reject an application — if the application does not meet the rejection criteria then the project will go through.

    I wonder if the Leaders of the respective political Groups have censured any of those making offending comments.

    Further to Votethecounillorsout I wonder if ANY Councilor would come out openly and say they would welcome the facility in their area.

    #145928

    jimbow
    Participant

    I doubt it, they want to keep their seat at the next election.

    However,could this lead to Councillors voting this application through for Gwersyllt, knowing full well a new application would not come back for this in their ward.

    #145930

    Matt
    Participant

    However,could this lead to Councillors voting this application through for Gwersyllt, knowing full well a new application would not come back for this in their ward.

    You know what, I think it’s going to take another 20 or 30 years before those with mental health issues are going to be treated with the right level of respect and understanding from both those in power who make the decisions and also the general public who make ridiculous and unreasonable threats about people with mental health issues being located near to where they live.

    In fact, it’s entirely self defeating and stupid to actually turn away such facilities that serve the general public of Wrexham. With mental health issues and depression massively on the rise when some of these people who thought “oh this will never happen to me” but objected to a treatment facility within their area end up needing treatment and there’s a shortage of help available for them locally and they’re forced to either just get on with things through inadequate treatment from GPs and the Maelor where there is not enough specialist care or be sent away hundreds of miles in some cases from their families. Well I’ll have no sympathy whatsoever.

    If someone said do you want a new medical walk in centre or a minor injuries unit near your house for physical and general illnesses people would absolutely jump at that and are screaming about a shortage of such things. I’m also certain their councillors would be leaping over each other to get it sited in their wards thinking of all the prestige and kudos it would bring them.

    But no, the mental health stigma looms over like an executioner’s axe when we try and talk about and put in place facilities to ensure there is acceptable coverage across Wrexham to deal with these growing issues. You even have to ask yourself, these people who do have the irrational fear of those in secure units – would they rather have these people kept safe in secure units or would they rather have these people still living next door to them suffering from the same issues but with nowhere suitable for them to go and expected to cope on their own just because NIMBYs (not a huge fan of the phrase but applies) don’t want the facility near them.

    Mental health issues are things that people can file away in their mind as bad things that could happen to someone else such as drug abuse, alcoholism, homelessness, long-term unemployment – until of course it happens to them. Things that they can easily file away as self inflicted and therefore dish out their prejudices without taking 5 seconds to stand in someone else’s shoes and have some empathy. Things that can be defined as abnormal and section these types of people not as ordinary people (so eloquently highlighted in a tweet to Wrexham.com yesterday) when in fact these are things that happen to ordinary people as they are all ordinary parts of life.

    Of course pretty much everyone on here understands all this, but you try and take this to the average local person and you get met with the claim of being a “do-gooder” etc… Quite frankly I don’t care, the conversation needs to be gotten out there, people need to be challenged and made to feel uncomfortable about their views and their words and actions against different types of vulnerable people.

    #145950

    sportsboy
    Participant

    Perhaps clls Rogers and Warburton would rather the authority build a Victorian asylum type building where patients could be locked away for years on end and forgotten about ? Come on Wrexham Cllrs earn your money for once god knows most of you just sit back and take the money!!!!

    #146064

    Council Watcher
    Participant

    A point overlooked although not a Planning Rule is how many people from Wrexham with Mental Health problems at present are in units out of county who could in future receive treatment in Wrexham. Part of any mental health treatment is for people to engage with those that they know and love- facilities closer to home would permit easier access for visitors from within their own home environment.

    #146065

    99DylanJones
    Participant

    Response from Council to a formal complaint against Councillors for their actions and comments.

    Sioned Wyn Davies <Sioned.WynDavies@wrexham.gov.uk>
    Attachments8 Mar (2 days ago)
    to me, Trevor
    Dear Mr Jones

    Your email has been passed to me for a response in Mr Coxon’s absence.

    I must inform you that in so far as your complaint relates to the conduct of Councillors and potential breaches of the Code of Conduct for Members your complaint should be directed in the first instance to the Public Services Ombudsman for Wales who is responsible for considering such complaints. Full details as to how to submit a complaint can be found on the Ombudsman’s website: https://www.ombudsman-wales.org.uk/en.aspx.

    I can however confirm that both Trevor Coxon and myself have been made aware of the comments made at Planning Committee and I can assure you that the Council does not condone any individual making derogatory remarks about those suffering from mental illness. The Council Leader and Lead Member for Equalities have taken the matter up and you may be aware that the Lead Member has issued a press statement. In addition I am advised that the Lead Member is liaising with Council officers with a view to sourcing further awareness raising sessions for equality issues including mental health to which all members will be invited.

    I think you will see from this that the Council Leadership does take its responsibilities under the Equality Act seriously and will address the issue when there are shortcomings displayed by individuals.

    Your query with respect to consideration of the public sector equality duty during the planning process has been referred to the Planning Control Manager for a response.

    Yours sincerely,

    Sioned Wyn Davies
    Deputy Monitoring Officer

    Sioned Wyn Davies

    #146067

    Matt
    Participant

    That’s the exact same response I got Dylan except I also have them compiling an official council report to some questions I asked them.

    “I am consulting colleagues with respect to the specific issues you raise in your complaint as to the position of Wrexham Council in order to ensure that a comprehensive response is provided to you. I will revert to you as soon as I am able on those specific issues and will endeavour to do so by Wednesday 21 March.”

    My questions were as follows, directly following up from the questionable councillor comments.

    a) Based on the comments Cllr Warburton has made in a planning committee – Cllr Warburton pointed out it was ‘called mental health unit’ and that there was a ‘railway line by the side of it’, rather than explain his point he looked around the room and said “I don’t think I need to say anymore about that one.”

    i) Are there any reasons why Wrexham Council would seek to prevent the siting of a residential or other facility for people with mental health issues near to a railway track for fear of actions that might be taken? On grounds of health and safety or any other objection

    ii) Are there any reasons why Wrexham Council would seek to not house a person into council or social housing who has or had in the past mental health issues near to a railway track. Again for fear of actions that might be taken? On grounds of health and safety or any other objection.

    b) Based on the comments Cllr Pemberton has made in a planning committee – Cllr Pemberton bluntly said he felt ‘schizophrenics next to schools should be a planning issue’, acknowledging the need for such a facility but ‘it is in the wrong position’.

    i) Are there any reasons why Wrexham Council would seek to prevent the siting of a residential or other facility for people with schizophrenia or other mental health issues near to a school? On grounds of public safety, child protection or any other objection

    ii) Are there any reasons why Wrexham Council would seek to not house a person into council or social housing who suffers from schizophrenia from living near a school? Again, on grounds of public safety, child protection or any other objection

    c) Based on the comments Cllr Rogers has made in a planning committee – Cllr Graham Rogers said he had concerns that once a person had received treatment they would not ‘be returned back to their own surroundings’, and said if they remained local there could be ‘trouble’.

    i) Are there any reasons why Wrexham Council would seek to not house a person into council or social housing who has previously been sectioned under the mental health act or living in a secure unit and then released into the public after successful treatment? Again as with earlier concerns on grounds of public safety or any other objection

    Will be interesting to see what their response is.

    #146068

    Council Watcher
    Participant

    The use of the webcams in meetings will now at least have a ‘true’ record of proceedings as the age-old method of providing minutes that are so scant you often wonder if you were at the same meeting. I welcome the webcasting but as shown in this situation Councillors have got to learn to be more articulate and thoughtful on what they say. It will also be interesting leading up to elections when some will no doubt go for self-promotion.

    Let all Councillor be on notice that there are members of the public who watch what happens and will bring you to account. As the response above shows the first point of contact will be the Public Service Ombudsman for Wales and not your fellow colleagues.

    For anyone who wants to lodge a complaint here is the link-
    http://www.ombudsman-wales.org.uk/en/Making%20a%20complaint.aspx

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