Please Sir/Ma’am may I have some more?

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  • #194965

    MP1953
    Participant

    Great idea Zinger but I would guess a lot of parents would not go for this, they would rather have the money.

    Matt Scotland or Wales for that matter would never manage on their own, like it or not the majority of the cash needed to run the UK is generated in the London area.

    The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is.

    #194971

    Matt
    Participant

    It’s not about whether or not they could manage on their own, it’s a question of perceived treatment and as a result of successive Governments (both Labour and Tories) to give the Scottish the respect they deserve it has led for the people, especially the young to believe that Scotland can go out on its own and manage.

    Westminster doesn’t respect the Celtic nations or even the North of England, because as you say the vast majority of wealth is generated in London and the South East. But it does mean they have to throw a bone to more deprived areas of the country.

    Perhaps that’s why the British Empire crumbled, because the Better offs in this country completely fail to look after the needs and respect those outside of their elitist bubble and now that’s ebbing all the way to domestic levels.

    #194972

    Matt
    Participant

    Just read through all the dross excuses that both the local MPs gave when speaking to Wrexham.com as to why they voted down the motion.

    The thing is they rightly identified that it was just an opposition day motion and had no binding legislative impact. However, it was designed to make the Government and all the Tory MPs look bad if they voted against it and it did just that. Especially as some Conservative MPs are ministers responsible for education, child welfare and health etc…

    There are others who are patrons of child welfare and food poverty charities. Thus in the above cases it looks like they are voting against their own political areas of interest.

    People won’t remember or even bother to read these long winded and tedious rebuttals spun out by the likes of Atherton and Baynes.

    However they will remember today’s Mirror front page where all 300 Tory MPs are named and shamed.

    At the end of the day, whether or not it was an opposition motion – the mood of the country and it also seems the consensus on here feel that kids should not be allowed to go hungry and whilst not a perfect solution, the gesture would have gone some way to feeding some of the most vulnerable in society.

    These politicians got voted in as unknowns but are they ever going to curry any favour with their constituents if they can’t even give such a basic human need in one of the most developed nations in 2020?

    #194992

    zinger
    Participant

    Always comes down to the headlines of whichever paper you read. Gone are the days when they were ‘news’papers.

    Do they still have practical lessons in school such as gardening, cooking & nutrition? If not, why not? You can do so much with an egg or a potato. Not many greengrocers in the old vegetable market would refuse a child who showed interest in an apple. It all comes down to education.

    #194993

    TimRegency
    Participant

    The excuse that they’d prefer a long term solution is demonstrably preposterous. This sort of argument is known as a ‘false dichotomy’ because it pretends that the choice is between a short term solution or a long term solution when in fact, it’s possible to have both. The proposal was intended to give relief to hungry children during this pandemic.

    In any case, we’ve had 10 years of austerity under the Conservatives that resulted in an explosion of food banks even before this outbreak arrived. The idea that they’re interested in a long term solution would be laughable if it were not so cruel. Besides, this is food we’re talking about. Effectively saying to children ‘you may be hungry today, but don’t worry, we’re planning a long term solution that will come good in a few years time’ is, well, I shouldn’t need to explain the absurd cruelty of it. Their excuses don’t wash.

    #194998

    zinger
    Participant

    Tim, if you saw a hungry child, what would you do? Give them a jam butty or complain that someone else isn’t doing so? It is down to each & every one of us to help a child who is genuinely hungry. We can all give an apple (example) without making a song & dance about it. It shouldn’t be a political problem.

    I don’t believe that children from any background should be made to feel different because that feeling will stay with them all their lives. It is all part & parcel of making the ‘haves’ & ‘have nots’.

    #195004

    TimRegency
    Participant

    I do both, Zinger. I give to charities and food banks and I condemn Conservative cruelty.

    #195007

    Matt
    Participant

    Zinger, doesn’t matter what papers people read, it’s which front pages now go viral and get shared across people’s social media on their phones and tablets these days. People don’t do ‘Long Reads’ anymore (much to my dismay!)

    It is on principle down to all of us to make sure we help children who are in need, hence the vast number of charities and fund raising around children and poverty, people give what they can to those. Unfortunately charity has limits and each private individual only has limits to their financial means and resources to help hungry kids.

    Lots of it is invisible, you don’t so much have children begging in the streets these days because they are hungry, more like being stuck at home not getting enough meals or the right type of food. Especially difficult during this year when we are in lockdown/social distancing – you couldn’t go round being offering Jam Butties to strangers children as if were. There’d be the whole issue of looking like the Pied Piper as well.

    Ultimately we all go down to the polling station on Election Day and vote for what kind of person we want to represent us to run the current in the right way. There’s many who vote for a candidate who cares about stuff like child poverty or protecting the most vulnerable. Someone who has access to the public purse strings who can allocate money paid through tax and other means to those who need it as part and parcel of a democratic society.

    Then there are others decide to vote for someone who cares about their own interests only and that’s when you get a Tory and a Tory Government and you see a managed decline of the poor. In my mind a Conservative government is one who wants to conserve their own wealth for themselves and the Upper Class and Middle Classes of the country – the I’m Alright Jack classes.

    Tories come in from a position of privelige and they don’t understand poverty and suffering and can’t empathise with those that do. The fact is our current Prime Minister complains about his PM salary and considers £150,000 – one of the best paid jobs in the country – to be too low.

    The only way these Tories can be pushed into doing the right thing is to create a public outrage and verbally express that any given situation is not okay and force them into making a U Turn.

    You’re right child hunger shouldn’t be political, it should be a basic human right that their needs are met in a country that generates so much wealth, by those who operate the welfare state.

    Also, in some countries they don’t allow the freedom of speech to speak up against injustice and inequality and allow criticism of Government, such as in Russia. I think that just goes to show how important it is to use your voice to complain about issues. Talk may seem cheap for some, but it might be the difference between life and death for others.

    #195017

    zinger
    Participant

    More difficult I agree for older people to give food to children. When my children were younger parents would feed whichever children their children were playing with at lunchtime. They probably would gravitate at lunchtime to where they got the best deal.

    The Welfare State was the biggest & best of Labour Party achievements but unfortunately it has gone too far. Now it has become the Nanny State where people don’t have to think for themselves & are absolved of any form of responsibility.

    I passionately believe that all children should be treated equally. The feeling of entitlement that now eminates is the biggest cause of many problems that now exist.
    Working parents might also have a sense of guilt in that by working they can’t give their children the time they deserve. Perceived priorities???

    If all school aged children were to have free nutrious school lunches then there would be no child hunger & child benefit money would be used to benefit the very children it was intended for. It might also help with concentration on school work.

    It is voting adults who have made children pawns in the game of politics.

    #195041

    TimRegency
    Participant

    Yes, I think that’s a good idea about reorganising child benefit in the way you suggest, Zinger. As you’ve said, it makes sure the money goes where it’s intended, it removes the stigma of inequality and, most importantly, the children are fed. That’s 3 birds with one stone.

    However, you moved away from the OP point a bit by referring to the welfare state in general and to supposed problems like ‘the nanny state’ and attitudes of ‘entitlement.’ I personally think those are made-up right-wing grievances pushed by right-wing papers and that we would need to know exactly what they mean, with some examples, for any debate.

    I’m not sure about nowadays, but many of the letters sent to claimants by the DHSS/BA were crammed full of the word ‘entitled.’ They would say ‘We’ve decided that you are entitled to this and entitled to that component of this benefit,’ things like that. So I think it’s a bit unfair for the government to turn around this late and complain about ‘entitled’ attitudes. Besides, why aren’t people entitled to decent standards of social security?

    But that’s another debate, at least quite a few of us think your suggestion about child benefit was a good one.

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