MP Susan Clwyd South’s MP has said she would vote for a confirmatory referendum

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  • #175790

    newwales
    Participant

    Why are MP’s incapable of representing there constituency “Boris Johnson has torn up that backstop, which means that if the trade talks are not successful… up to December 2020 – that’s how long they could take, then we could leave on no-deal terms.” Thats the point, if the Backstop had remained, we could have been stuck in talks forever as we could Never leave unless the EU agreed, if no trade talks were agreed.

    I am a remainer that has accepted the leave vote.

    #175806
    AMA Express
    AMA Express
    Participant

    It’s October 2092.

    The British Prime Minister pays their annual visit to Brussels to ask for a further extension to the Brexit deadline.

    No one remembers where this tradition originated but tourists flock from all over the world to view the ritual humiliation of a nation.

    #175809

    wrexview
    Participant

    MP’s are claiming they haven’t time to discuss the Brexit Bill and yet another day when they don’t start until the afternoon. How about they start at 9 am for a few days , they will be astounded how much extra work they will be able to do!

    #175812

    Matt
    Participant

    I don’t know why people act so surprised that a minority Government isn’t able to pass legislation through Parliament. People are just particularly sensitive to this because it’s Brexit.

    The only way Brexit will go over the line is if General Election is called and a majority of no deal Brexiteers get elected in. Then we crash out of the EU.

    Any other configuration will be blocked in some way shape or form by the various factions. A soft Brexit gets blocked for being a Brexit at all by Remainers and for being too soft by Brexiteers.

    But if an election is called and a configuration is in play that favours remain then a People’s vote is coming.

    I’m unsure what that means because if the country vote to leave again the majority of MPs who have been re-elected will still hold it up in Parliament indefinitely.

    This could rightly go on for years.

    #175813

    TimRegency
    Participant

    I don’t know why people act so surprised that a minority Government isn’t able to pass legislation through Parliament. People are just particularly sensitive to this because it’s Brexit.

    The only way Brexit will go over the line is if General Election is called and a majority of no deal Brexiteers get elected in. Then we crash out of the EU.

    Any other configuration will be blocked in some way shape or form by the various factions. A soft Brexit gets blocked for being a Brexit at all by Remainers and for being too soft by Brexiteers.

    But if an election is called and a configuration is in play that favours remain then a People’s vote is coming.

    I’m unsure what that means because if the country vote to leave again the majority of MPs who have been re-elected will still hold it up in Parliament indefinitely.

    This could rightly go on for years.

    Yes, this is why many brexiters try to conflate the referendum with Parliament / the General Election. They know they don’t have the numbers, so they pretend the narrow referendum result was a binding instruction to MPs.

    #175814

    IMHO
    Participant

    Elan Jones had a good majority at the last election but that could be overturned at the next, a big ask but possible, i hope it is. She goes on about a “confirmatory” vote, what she really means is a re-run of the referendum, it’s like calling speed cameras safety cameras just a way, in the minds of the instigators to get something distasteful sound acceptable whereas everybody knows what it really means. If there was to be a referendum where the questions were, out with the deal on offer or out with no deal i could get along with it but, it won’t be, will it? It’s more likely to be out with the deal or out with no deal or, remain, so splitting the leave vote which is exactly what the scheming MP’s like Elan Jones would want to do. We have made the decision on going or staying and that’s an immutable fact so remain should not figure on any ballot paper.
    I’ll sit back now and wait for the remainers to come back at me with all their twisted logic, bending over backwards to explain how a democratic vote taken just like any vote in the UK has been taken should not be respected and should be overturned. Yeah right.

    #175815

    Matt
    Participant

    I’ll sit back now and wait for the remainers to come back at me with all their twisted logic, bending over backwards to explain how a democratic vote taken just like any vote in the UK has been taken should not be respected and should be overturned. Yeah right.

    No bending over backwards required – The reason things are reversible in a democratic society is to prevent civil wars and bloodshed – if there is no pathway for someone to become a victor through electoral and legislative means then people will take to the streets and settle the issue there. Much better for us to argue the toss here like civilised individuals than to take pitchforks and flaming torches out into Wrexham?

    The referendum was advisory so that means it was up to the government at the time to take steps to implement that result. They haven’t managed to as of yet after 3 and a half years, and it still follows my line of logic from my first post that in order to mandate Brexit the Government needs a majority who believe the advisory result must be upheld and are able to legislate to push it through.

    In a democracy it also makes logical sense that there is an opposition who wish to overturn such a result and if they get into power or form a coalition they have every right to put the vote to the public again or overturn it completely.

    As I said we’re in very murky territory if Leave wins the referendum a second time because a large number of Remain MPs won’t respect the result still if they get re-elected. However, there has been terrible chicanery on both sides.

    I voted to remain in the original vote because it made logical sense – freedom of movement for me and my family to live and work anywhere within 28 countries across Europe seems like a no brainer. I’m not scared of EU immigrants because I have several for neighbours and they’re brilliant. I’m also not afraid of EU laws because they haven’t infringed on my life a single time.

    What I did see was a huge uprising in particular of English Nationalism off the back of Brexit and those of you who voted to leave in North Wales can blame the ugly side of the Leave campaign on them. I am naturally repelled to backwards and racist type behaviour – label me a snowflake or whatever but bigotry, hatred and negativity to fellow individuals regardless of their background has no place in modern society. I struggled to see past the argument of the angry chest beaters with St George flags, of Farage and his send them back poster, the delight the next morning when people on social media were bragging about rounding up and sending the Poles and Romanians back home. That’s not everyone and I understand that from the educated people I speak to here who I respectfully disagree with. There’s tosser Remainers too who think people should be discriminated and sacked for supporting Brexit – I can’t support that either – that’s voter discrimination. The highly polarised nature of the Brexit vote and near equal split down the country just means a division has been created in the country that quite simply didn’t really exist before the 2015 General Election.

    If things get settled either way – we leave or we stay – hopefully that will put the matter to bed for most (I’ll accept it even if I don’t agree with it – but I’ll play the game up until the final whistle as I have every right to) and we can move past all the bullshit and get back to fixing the country. I can tell you whilst Brexit takes up all of Parliamentary and has politicians hamstrung and deified or vilified based on their views on Brexit – everything else in this country just goes to hell in a hand-basket. Every other issue becomes secondary.

    The likes of the Wrexham Executive board can hide and push through crippling austerity measures that make Wrexham a second class town because people are too busy being distracted by Brexit or can use it to blame all their problems on it. We’ll come out of this tunnel either in the EU or out of the EU with very little to show for the past 3 years and it’ll take a number of years after to recover.

    #175828

    billycoen
    Participant

    Where’s Guido or Ollie when you need ’em.

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