Matt
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What difference would a general election make if the EU won’t negotiate with whoever wins.
The EU seems to be hinting at an ability to go and renegotiate if something meaningful is done to try and resolve the current domestic political deadlock that is preventing Brexit legislation from being passed.
This means some kind of actual political action rather than repeat posturing and bluff and blunder which May specialises in.
I believe they’d renegotiate for one of the following actions:
I) A general election
II) A people’s vote
III) Change in Prime Minister of current Government
IV) Theresa May backs down from her red linesWhat this seems to hint is that either they hope one of these actions will shake up the British Parliamentary make up in the hope a deal will go through OR they’ll renegotiate but only for an even softer Brexit.
At present I’m not sure if they are anticipating a no deal happening – they seem to be very keen to lengthen the Article 50 Brexit deadline to prevent this from happening. Unless an ERG led Tory government gets in or a Phoenix from the Ashes UKIP party gets major influence in parliament nobody else wants no deal.
I’d be very interested to see what stance the EU would take if someone said F*CK it no deal!
Some very good questions and statements zinger – I will address them below.
So Matt you say that the deal is so horrible but you don’t say why it is so horrible.
I believe on a whole the deal is horrible because it doesn’t go far enough for Hard Brexiteers to get the freedom from the EU they want & the level of participation proposed in the deal is not worth being involved in a soft Brexit – there are bills and constraints without any influence or reward.
With the backstop clause it also risks splitting the UK into 2 separate zones – NI remaining in the single market & Great Britain in a Customs Union or nothing at all – to me that is completely unacceptable. All 4 nations should be treated identically otherwise the concept of the UK itself is dead in the water.
What I believe will happen if NI stays in the single market is that on the upside for them is that European companies will base themselves to gain access to the UK market. This is in direct competition with Wales who are all already struggling to retain international companies as the base of choice in the UK. They will have an unfair advantage.
Also perversely there will be nothing to stop freedom of movement of EU citizens into Northern Ireland which is where all the new jobs will be anyway and inevitably they’ll use NI as a landing platform, gain residency and then come to the UK anyway and do everything leavers are scared of anyway. It’s the equivalent of having a secure perimeter fence around your house but someone has left your back gate unlocked and wide open.
Personally I don’t like the deal myself because I voted to remain & the only type of Brexit I would find acceptable is a Norway Plus deal – which includes single market access for all of the UK. That’s of course at odds with a lot of leavers voted for.
Theresa’s deal is almost like a Brexit deal for the sake of getting a Brexit it doesn’t give enough to any of the concerned factions – which is why it received a record defeat in Parliament.
A decent initial deal would have been thrashed out a year ago with wiggle room to modify and negotiate so that people could actually get on board with it and tweak it to something that could stand up on its own 2 feet. Not in this case, this is the final and only deal vote, on it and there’s only about 2 months to go and by the way there’s no room for renegotiation with Europe whatsoever.
There’s a lot more nitty gritty to it but those are the main problems I see with it.
Absolutely appalling state of affairs – that disgusting that rats are being spotted in these cold temperatures. Just wait until summer, the stink! They’ll need to send in the Pied Piper.
Did we not have a General election in 2017 and that election was fought on a mandate to deliver Brexit
Yes, that is correct – we did have a GE in 2017 with a mandate to deliver Brexit, but so far May has completely failed to do that.
Her and her goons spent 2 and a half years pussy-footing around to get a withdrawal agreement that was so horrible nobody liked it – faced a leadership challenge where 117 of her own party voted her unfit to lead the Conservatives. Then delayed and got absolutely thumped left, right and centre with a humiliating, largest defeat ever for a government, by trying to get her withdrawal agreement through the commons. Then her government only survived a vote of no confidence thanks to their £1bn bribe to the brigandry DUP – who won’t back any of her Brexit deals, but will keep her in power so they can milk her for more money.
Now the EU have even stated that as things have dragged on so long, Article 50 will have to be delayed beyond 29th March no matter what as there’s not even time for May’s government to even prepare a no deal Brexit. That is an absolutely astonishing humiliation.
With the current deadlock in parliament, there’s not even an overall majority available in the house to pass a no deal Brexit, EU are unwilling to renegotiate unless there’s a people’s vote or a General Election, or Theresa May moves from her red lines. There is no delivery of Brexit in sight.
So I call that a complete failure of being able to deliver the mandate and therefore is why there should be a General Election – so that someone else can steer the UK in whatever direction it needs to go. The Conservatives need a new leader, because if it returns with her in charge, we’ll be stuck in this impasse for years.
Surely no Dealers like yourself would want this Truth? The ideal party for yourself would be an ERG-led Tories with the likes of Rees-Mogg at the helm, open selection meaning they get rid of the remain Tories and you’ve got yourself a party that is harder right than the soft Tories, but more easy to swallow for the average voter than UKIP were. If the will of the people is there in sufficient numbers, they’ll win. Put them head to head against Corbyn’s Labour – I like a good election. Bring it on.
I think a 4 question or anything more than a binary vote would lead to more confusion.
Most people didn’t even understand what it meant to Leave in the first place when they voted for it. They didn’t really consider what exactly we’d be leaving and then neither did they nor anyone leading the Leave charge for one minute consider where we were Leaving to (Britain’s post-Brexit position) and what the plan would be when we got there.
It was a case of let’s all grab these bags that look like parachutes but nobody has told us explicitly what’s in them and jumped out of a plane only to hope for the best that there is one in there whilst freefalling and not splat into the ground like a pancake.
2 and a half years of so-called Brexit appointed MPs and Government specialists working on a deal bringing back sweet FA. It’s an absolute embarrassment.
It’s too late to keep repeating leave means leave and hope for the best it’s directionless. If there’s nobody there to lead you to leave then you are very much doomed to remain. Which is why it is best that there’s a General Election so all camps can vote in leaders of their respective wishes to actually try and execute what they want with a valid mandate.
If there’s another people’s vote – with 2, 3 or 4 questions, there’s no guarantee regardless of the vote – any advisory result by the electorate would be able to pass through parliament. You can’t make a new referendum binding as that would completely undermine the validity of the original vote and would effectively alienate Leave voters who won the last referendum if the vote didn’t go the same way.
Everyone should refuse to vote? Voter turnout is already low enough in Wrexham as it is – already got some professional lifetime vote abstainers.
Not happy about how things are going? Don’t vote for the status quo vote for someone else you believe in. Failing that stand for local MP yourself, set out your stall and likeminded people will back you.
The levels of voter apathy and non participation is the reason the country and the system is in the state it is. If turnouts started hitting 80%+ and enough people were unhappy and voted for alternative candidates it would soon give the current set of MPs and main parties a kick up the backside.
I very much doubt things will change though as it’s easy enough to bitch and moan on social media – but the same highly opinionated people won’t take the time out to get down to their local polling station on voting day and make a cross where it counts.
This doesn’t apply to anyone on here as the majority of people are here they have more than a passing issue in politics. I’m talking about the Facebook duds who roll out the usual stock nonsense phrases.
I guarantee 99% of those on Facebook bitching about money going to cats rather than those on the streets donate exactly £0 to homeless causes themselves & probably next to nothing to charities in general.
This is a good article that lists all of the failings that this Brexit Deal by Theresa May has led to it being almost inevitably doomed. It’s a bit of a long read.
But the short sound bite you need to know from it is:
Just as May failed to build rapport with her European counterparts, she failed to develop a relationship with the British people, refusing to listen to their concerns about austerity or seek the losers’ consent by negotiating a Brexit deal that worked for the whole country. Despite constant claims of commitment to the union, she showed almost no respect for the devolved governments – nor indeed for the trades union movement or wider civil society.
MP1953 – what was explained to you in the Leave Campaign on what you were going to get if Brexit was voted for? What was your understanding of our future relationship with the EU?
I think what people need to ask is who or what is looking out for Wales in this Brexit deal? Wales is not even mentioned in the Withdrawal Agreement. There is no guarantee of replacement funding to replace European funding that Wrexham has benefited from many times.
There is no-one in Government who is really looking out for Wales’ interests and the WAG is not powerful enough to have any serious clout about what goes on. Mark Drakeford is too busy finding his feet as First Minister to really be getting involved in anything.
Scotland has got an out if things go belly up post-Brexit by throwing up another Indy Ref and going independent and Northern Ireland ultimately can re-unify with Republic of Ireland if things become drastically bad there (unlikely in light of the Troubles but it’s still there). All NI born British Nationals also have access to Irish passports so they will still retain Freedom of Movement no matter what.
This leaves us Welsh in last place as usual – stuck with whatever the English lump on us. Somewhere along the line we need to grow a backbone and make it clear we are a country in our own right (not meaning independence but meaning having some kind of influence) and not just another English county with more sheep and mountains than most.
