Opposing Brexit could cost me my seat – Labour MP Ian Lucas

Home Forums Wrexham.com Forums Wrexham Forum Opposing Brexit could cost me my seat – Labour MP Ian Lucas

  • Author
    Posts
  • #173955

    Matt
    Participant

    Well, well, well – this is thread 817 about how Lucas is going to lose his seat over his Brexit stance. Just because a bunch of people bothered to turn up for an election once and put an X in a box that won by the slimmest and most divisive of majorities over 3 years ago. Now they believe that they rule Britannia forever and are Masters of the Democratic Universe entitling them to shout everyone else down for having a difference of opinion.

    Apparently this advisory referendum has the same divine power as the 10 Commandments carved in stone and delivered on the mountain by God to Moses in some people’s eyes.

    The Conservative party who put this referendum forward and attempted to legislate Brexit are a failed Government. They were unable to convince the general public in 2017 that they deserved an increased working majority to push through their Brexit programme and subsequently lost their majority and then had to go begging to the sum of £1bn to the DUP (the most awkward and bloodsucking of parties to prop them up). They then negotiated a piss poor deal in Europe that nobody wanted, now they have completely lost all majority, making it impossible to legislate any domestic policy, let alone Brexit. Now this kamikaze strategy to crash the UK out of the EU on 31st October is incredibly irresponsible and those in charge – Johnson, Cummings etc… fail the majority of Nolan Principles that we expect those in charge to possess.

    Quite frankly as you can see in this thread a large number of people have grown sick and tired at this ineptitude with this country weak at its knees because the Tories couldn’t organise a piss up in a brewery let alone something as complicated as Brexit. Rightly so Ian Lucas is gaining a lot of respect as he attempts to hold those to account in the Vote Leave campaign who carried out fraudulent activities and carry on in office as if they are like Trump.

    The basic tenet of democracy is that if an overall collective decides that a bad decision in law has been made then it is completely reversible or changeable. The only way Brexit can be pushed through is if come the election enough people go out and vote to elect a sufficient majority of MPs who agree they want to push through the legislation. Conversely it is completely within democratic right for opponents of Brexit to attempt to elect a majority of candidates to either block Brexit or put it forth for a confirmatory referendum. There’s nothing traitorous about that or perverting democracy – it is democracy.

    The only time democracy stops is if machinations are put in place to prevent debate and voting, such as unnecessarily proroguing parliament and then in those 5 weeks continuing to act as an EXECUTIVE by carrying out activities relating to Brexit or the country without consulting Parliament. Everyone can clearly see the Government departments are still carrying out business without any ability for challenge. If the current government had a strong and stable majority then that would be no problem, but as it stands at the moment they aren’t allowed to do anything without the opposition’s say so. Yes, in an ideal world there should have been an election called already, but the extremely low levels of confidence in Johnson means that he must be forced to stew in his own juices and fully held to account for all his failings.

    I find it very odd that the media and hardline Brexit cheerleaders keep thinking everything is okay and on track when things keep getting worse and worse. It was humiliating that May brought back her defeated deal back over and over again and kept getting beaten. Johnson has taken British politics to whole new levels of farce in a few short weeks.

    #173956

    MargaretA
    Participant

    [quote quote=173954]

    Remainers are a bunch of moaning gits who prefer to hide behind Europe’s apron strings and are too afraid to take ANY risk at all.
    Bet you sh1t yourselfs crossing the street because it is too risky.
    What did we ever before we joined? I guess we survived it!

    WHat a reasoned and cogent argument you make Wrex-iT. I’m surprised you are not standing for election to advance your model of respect and open mindedness.

    It is also a fact that the referendum result was only advisory, See House of Commons briefing note 07172
    https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-7212/CBP-7212.pdf[/quote]
    A referendum is indeed advisory. However Cameron declared that he would honour the result, and both main parties then put Brexit into their manifesto for the following election. Other countries who use a referendum vote usually set a majority figure of for instance 60%. Our 52/48% was very narrow. Yes, I can hear everyone who voted to leave shouting that 52 is larger than 48!

    #173957

    Matt
    Participant

    [quote quote=173956]
    A referendum is indeed advisory. However Cameron declared that he would honour the result, and both main parties then put Brexit into their manifesto for the following election. Other countries who use a referendum vote usually set a majority figure of for instance 60%. Our 52/48% was very narrow. Yes, I can hear everyone who voted to leave shouting that 52 is larger than 48![/quote]

    The phrase I have highlighted in bold invalidates all other statements that should or would have happened. It’s a bit like having respected the medical opinions of Dr Shipman for your dear old Gran or trusting Sir Jimmy Savile to look after all the orphans.

    #173958

    MargaretA
    Participant

    [quote quote=173957]

    A referendum is indeed advisory. However Cameron declared that he would honour the result, and both main parties then put Brexit into their manifesto for the following election. Other countries who use a referendum vote usually set a majority figure of for instance 60%. Our 52/48% was very narrow. Yes, I can hear everyone who voted to leave shouting that 52 is larger than 48!

    The phrase I have highlighted in bold invalidates all other statements that should or would have happened. It’s a bit like having respected the medical opinions of Dr Shipman for your dear old Gran or trusting Sir Jimmy Savile to look after all the orphans.[/quote]
    Yes, I wasn’t disagreeing with you. The trouble is Gran trusted Dr Shipman and believed him.

    #173960

    Alunh
    Participant

    Wrexham Council were just wondering whether you might volunteer to move their goalposts into summer storage next year Matt. You seem to have an aptitude for it

    #173964

    Matt
    Participant

    [quote quote=173960]Wrexham Council were just wondering whether you might volunteer to move their goalposts into summer storage next year Matt. You seem to have an aptitude for it[/quote]

    Alun, I’m going to have to defer to Thatcher on this one (yes I went there).

    I always cheer up immensely if an attack is particularly wounding because I think, well, if they attack one personally, it means they have not a single political argument left.

    #173965

    trish
    Participant

    To those who say the decision was made at the referendum, would you say I would like to buy that house.. Don’t worry I will sign up even though I don’t know what the inside looks like.?

    #173966

    Alunh
    Participant

    I actually liked your argument Matt. It was a cock up not thinking it through fully when it was set up……….but it was what it was……and should have been honoured. The Labour Party should have got their long trousers on, and given support (if only by abstaining) to get this done.

    If you offer a binary choice with the winner takes it all……..

    #173967

    billycoen
    Participant

    [quote quote=173958]It’s a bit like having respected the medical opinions of Dr Shipman for your dear old Gran[/quote] Theres talk of a film about Shipman,Robert de Nero is down to play the lead role,its called The old dear hunter.

    #173977

    Alunh
    Participant

    [quote quote=173965]To those who say the decision was made at the referendum, would you say I would like to buy that house.. Don’t worry I will sign up even though I don’t know what the inside looks like.?[/quote]

    That might be a good point…….except the people who voted have been inside that house for the last 40 years + and know precisely what it looks like. Additionally, they are mainly aware that next year some new rules are being introduced courtesy of the Lisbon treaty that will make their lives even more constrained

Content is user generated and is not moderated before posting. All content is viewed and used by you at your own risk and Wrexham.com does not warrant the accuracy or reliability of any of the information displayed. The views expressed on these Forums and social media are those of the individual contributors.
Complaint? Please use the report post tools or contact Wrexham.com .

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

More...

LFG! Deadpool & Wolverine floral artwork appears in Wrexham overnight

News

Save the date! Huge Playday event returning to Wrexham city centre this summer

News

Funding secured to continue Schoolbeat Cymru in north Wales schools

News

Wrexham employees raise over £1,000 for Nightingale House Hospice

News

Teaching at Wrexham University ranked top in Wales

News

Chester Zoo announces sudden loss of beloved Asian elephant

News