Councillors could get recycled laptops if needed – as some forward ‘confidential’ information to insecure personal devices

Confidential information has been shared to private devices by one or more councillors a meeting was told yesterday.

Wrexham Council’s Democratic Services Committee met virtually to discuss a plan that could pave the way for councillors to get an additional devices, as well as their iPads, to help with their new virtual remote working process.

Due to the pandemic councillors have been holding meetings via Zoom and other video conferencing services, something some have struggled with due to following the meeting itself as well as trying to view documents at the same time.

The report before councillors said: “It is clear that this situation is going to continue well into next year and as such, there is a need to offer the option of additional ICT kit to enable Members to continue to do business in the most efficient way. ”

Committee Chair  (Such councillors with Chair positions have a renumeration of £22,568 a year rather than the basic £13,868 councillor salary) Cllr Malcolm King illustrated the struggles of councillors by having to scroll through several screens to see all members of the committee, before having a ‘aha’ moment and spotting the gallery view: “You will all be pleased to know I just taught myself how to get all of you on screen at once, by just testing out the the icons around it.”

Lead Member Cllr David Kelly told the meeting there was a range of iPad based equipment with councillors, with differing ages and status of software with the devices, and summed up the proposal as: “The iPads will be upgraded, because they’re due for updates anyway.

“But people need a secondary device as well, without using their own personal PCs or whatever.

“So in a nutshell, is get the iPads upgraded, get the updates done, get secondary devices out to people who need the secondary devices.”

Chief Officer for ICT Mark Owen at Wrexham Council explained that virtual working would certainly be taking place through next year, and ‘all councils are considering what they need to be fit for the future’, pointing out that laptops for councillors would be an ‘optional position’.

A frustrated Cllr Michael Dixon was critical of initial advice he had been given over iPad use, and as a result he had been ‘fannying around for three years’ but has since discovered a method of printing agendas that has ‘revolutionised’ the way he works.

Cllr Dixon also tried to educate his colleagues on the hands up indication feature of Zoom to help meeting progress, but without much joy.

Cllr Carrie Harper supported the updates to iPads, but was critical of the laptop proposals. She said: “I couldn’t see a budget set out in the report in terms of how much will be set aside for the new laptops.

“I think it sends out the wrong message at the wrong time, because I know we’ve still got staff who are using mobile phones who struggle to receive a picture message when you send it to them, a picture of a pothole or water issue.

“I know we need two screens, but I assume most councillors would have access to either a PC or laptop at home.

“If people don’t, given the circumstances we could be facing with even more cuts to public services then potentially. I would suggest that members buy a device themselves. I think now you can get a refurbished laptop that will do the job for about 150 quid.”

Cllr John McCusker explained he had a ‘backlash’ already from residents over the laptop plans, with councillors being accused of having ‘snouts in the trough’, adding: “To even suggest that we’re all going to get new laptops for Christmas type of thing.

“I think we just shoot ourselves in the foot far too often. If you want it, you think you need it, get it yourself in my opinion”.

The Chief Officer pointed out: “If you’ve already got that kit yourselves, and you’re able to use that and you don’t need any support on that then we’re saying don’t ask for a laptop, really. If we do provide laptops, then clearly from a support perspective, we want everyone to have the same kit.

“The report doesn’t say that there be new laptops for all members, what we will be doing is sourcing what we’ve got available. So that will be a mix really, there may be some new ones, but generally, they’re the ones that have been returned.

“At the moment there are members that are going into meetings on WebEx on Zoom on Teams, and to do that from the iPad environment is much more difficult, and you don’t get the benefits of doing that from the iPad. Whereas if you’ve got a laptop, then it’s much easier to do and hold those meetings really

Cllr King said: “A dozen secondhand laptops recycled, would be entirely different to 52 brand new ones. I don’t need a laptop, I’ve got one already. And I suspect most members have already got a laptop.

“As Carrie said, most members can probably afford to buy a new laptop for themselves anyway. But there will be some who can’t.

“Therefore we shouldn’t disadvantage people who’ve got less money in terms of carrying out their democratic processes that that wouldn’t be right either.”

Cllr Dixon spoke of his fear of the headlines buying new laptops could generate: “I can see the headlines now, ‘Councillors not only got free iPads, they’re getting free laptops’, I really do fear for the for the headlines, because I’m not entirely convinced it is justifiable. Most people can lay their hands on something.”

Although the word ‘security’ is nowhere to be found in the report before councillors, Cllr Kelly explained one large previously unmentioned issue with councillors using their own devices. He said: “We’ve currently got an issue where members have no alternative but to forward confidential documents, Part Two items, to personal devices that are not subject to the security that Wrexham Council controlled devices are subject to.

“I think that’s quite a significant issue for us. I will not forward documents to personal devices, if I don’t think they should be in that domain. Because some of those personal devices are in family homes and can be accessed by the rest of the family with no security.

“The iPads are secured to the individual users with passwords and the fingerprints and whatever.”

No further details of how widespread the issue of councillors forwarding sensitive information to devices is, what issues were flagged up to identify the problem in the first place, or what has been put in place to resolve the issue. No councillors on the committee asked on the issue.

The debate moved forward, with councillors explaining that engagement by North Wales Police with community councils was affected by software – with police not wanting to use Zoom and therefore ‘not wanting to come to meetings’.

The question of such security of Zoom was touched on, with the Chair observing the meeting was publicly streamed anyway and therefore no issue for secrecy however there could be a problem if the meeting moved to secret Part 2 status.

The Officer reassured councillors there was no plans for Wrexham Council to stop using Zoom.

With the debate winding up Cllr Harper offered to amend her recommendation, that initially acknowledged the councillor’s iPad software needs to be updated, but at first had deleted the reference to laptops for councillors, but was happy to support ‘recycled laptops’ to be supplied to councillors.

Cllr Dixon was not onboard with that, not wanting to ‘disenfranchise any of my fellow councillors from being able to work effectively’.

Cllr Derek Wright proposed a recommendation that was in essence the same as Cllr Harper’s amended one, but with a precise time when councillors could get a device if they needed one.

The Officer interjected pointing out the committee was trying to ‘micromanage’ the decision, pointing out the overall concept was a higher one. He said: “Are you going to upgrade the iPads? You haven’t got a choice in that otherwise they won’t work or be supported anyway.

“Then are you going to offer secondhand laptops for members? The fact that you’re offering secondhand ones may mean it takes a bit longer to roll those out.”

Cllr King agreed the committee was making ‘heavy weather’ of a straightforward issue, so cleared the issue of agreement on updating iPads via a quick unanimous vote.

The issue of laptops was next, with the Chair suggesting a proposal that “We should issue recycled laptops to members as they become available to those who need them on demand.” The Committee appeared all in favour with the exception of Cllr Dixon.

After the business concluded, Cllr Kelly revisited the issue of security, referring to some digital protocols around ‘Zoom fatigue’ and asked that the committee remind members “to not forward Part 2 or confidential information to secondary devices that are not in the control of Wrexham Council”, calling it a ‘fundamental’ principle.

Cllr Kelly said he felt “that note needs to be in the report”, the report that was his, and he presented to the committee.

Cllr King replied: “Well, we we’ve got a report already, so we can’t put it in now. But, that does seem to be an issue, which the IT Department might want to bring up and issue guidance on or so on. But I don’t think that’s something that we can really deal with comprehensively now.”