Forum Replies Created
I think you have to view businesses in some respects as genuinely at odds with homelessness. It would be a fair assessment to say they are not compatible cohabitants due to many of the objections raised in this thread – putting across the argument that they need some place to go – that is not prison (as this would cost taxpayers money anyway).
Seattle has taken the bold move to tax large businesses to help fund affordable housing and homeless services.
The likes of Amazon and Starbucks who rake in billions of dollars of profit globally every year and try to pay as little in corporation tax as possible are complaining and begrudging giving money to those most needy in society. The 1% trying to increase wealth and snub the 99%. They view funding as a hindrance, yet they would benefit from the streets being clear of homeless people – either successfully housed or in centres away from outside of their places of businesses. Those successfully housed would also potentially be able to go into a workforce for them and help them with expansion plans. A distinct lack of ethical morals and not wanting to pay workers a fair wage for a fair day’s work is what is preventing them from behaving with any kind of decency.
I don’t think you would expect many businesses (if any) to pay for homeless support in Wrexham (beyond money going from Business Rates back into WAG initiatives). But as this is a national problem and we are supposedly one of the most economically prosperous countries in the world, we should be diverting a certain level of “cream on the top” money to taking people off the streets, rather than inflating already bloated bank accounts and then everyone is happy. Yes, yes, socialist view blah blah blah. I just can’t see how removing someone from the high street repeatedly is the right answer for them to go back and generate further nuisance as it were.
Nice rallying call Marmoset, but quite frankly you are barking up the wrong tree here – probably wandering round the wrong forest entirely.
1) The forum possesses a diverse range of views on most town topics and the people on here tend to do their homework at a higher level than even the council do. Everything is put under intense scrutiny and if someone posts something that is less than factual it gets called out. Hence why many interesting questions get raised on here and escalate elsewhere. I actually find it almost bizarre and almost unnerving that Ty Pawb has been hit with universal criticism and consensus within this fact when you can take any other topic in town – homeless, Groves, Kingdom, housing, shops etc… and there will be huge debates with at least 3 completely different angles. So alarm bells sound when something like Ty Pawb is meeting universal criticism. Something really must be up.
2) If “Joe Public” as you put it decides to believe everything they read / see / hear then I suggest that they are ill prepared for 21st century life and should retire to a monastery or somewhere where influencers from around the world can’t mislead their delicate sensibilities via good old fashioned newspapers, TV/radio news, social media, workplace chatter etc… The point of having an opinion and speaking persuasively is one of the key reasons as a human being for communicating with others when getting deeper than anything other than asking “what’s for dinner?” or “how’s the weather?”. You can’t expect us to rein in our opinions just because you or other people are at odds with them. More than once recently have I been told to join a bloody committee on something I disagree with as some kind of deterrent to make me go into participation with something I’m not comfortable with or to get me to shut up. People try and force people into clubs, groups, parties and committees as an attempt to get them to conform and enforce “groupthink” with the threat that once they’re in the social group and disagree that they will be cast out or sanctioned.
3) I also fail to understand why people are automatically assumed to be trying to wind people up just because they have opposing views to what certain powers that be dictate should be the right “way to think”. Is that not just thought policing? By very nature, people with intelligence are free to think for themselves and make a choice to be positive, negative, cynical, destructive, constructive, satirical, serious, concerned or ambivalent and express themselves in whatever way they see fit. If you wish to push people into a rigid framework of thinking then you may as well go and find a bunch of Daily Mail, Sun readers and get them all to bleet from the same hymn sheet. As for the whole keyboard warrior thing – not sure if that is meant as an insult or statement of fact – but we’re on a text-based discussion forum, of course people are going to be emotive and elaborate using the tools of a computer/smartphone keyboard to get their point across – otherwise the forum would just be full of single line comments with very little stimulus or activity and it would die on its backside. What are we asking for here – Keyboard pacifists? A very timid, light touch approach to talking to people online, but being a little bit nervous in case anyone’s feelings get hurt? What is a news presenter/panelist – a camera warrior? How about an author? – a pen warrior? Radio DJ/presenter – a microphone warrior? Someone shouting the odds in the pub – a voice warrior? I’m not entirely sure when it became a pertinent issue as to how messages of note get delivered in this world.
4) I think that in order for your requests to have teeth, you actually need to take a point of view yourself rather than complain about other’s negative views, when you are not willing to get up on the soapbox yourself and tell us your own experiences of Ty Pawb, or what angle you are coming in from. Have you considered volunteering and joining the committee for Ty Pawb yourself? It sounds like you want to make it work, then you could take the lead and pick up other people who want to make it work. I know there are plenty of people on the Wrexham Town Matters Facebook group who back your stance. Show us negative nellies up by helping Ty Pawb to be a success. Then we will shut up. I think one of the frequent main concerns here that many people have is just how badly the council have implemented everything and as Council Watcher has pointed out above they are supposed to be promoting the Arts Hub and they’ve really not done much of that since the launch. You have to question why that is.May 15, 2018 at 12:35 pm in reply to: Wrexham Glyndŵr University welcomes Complete University Guide successes – COMEDY #149071
It is a shame that they are currently massively under performing, would like to see such an important community asset do better for the town.
Apparently there’s a Campus 2025 initiative. So they have got 7 years to show some kind of active improvement.
https://www.glyndwr.ac.uk/en/AboutGlyndwrUniversity/Campus2025/May 14, 2018 at 9:48 pm in reply to: Library Cafe to close due to work on Police Station and Council failure! #149046
Is the cafe actually ran as a private venture? I assumed it was part of the library goings on?
Alun, I completely understand that there is persistent nuisance behaviour that is carried out by those that fit into a “vagrant” profile that should not be tolerated around local business areas or anywhere residential, such as shoplifting, public defecation/urination, discarding of used needles, aggressive and threatening behaviour etc… Those are all clear criminal actions that can harm other members of the public and can be dealt with accordingly like they have done so in the past using ASBOs and town centre exclusion orders. Nobody should have to put up with anyone behaving in a nasty and intolerable way. There’s no disputing that.
What I don’t agree with is the new hard hitting zero tolerance approach where in theory someone who is sat quietly outside a shop and is hungry and thirsty is asking for food or money just to stay alive – they are committing a crime, can get taken to court, given a criminal record & fined.
I know there are a million different theories on homeless from all being druggy fix hungry scum who reject food to (I heard this one today and it made me laugh) a group of professional beggars who make an absolute killing from Wrexham’s affluent and overflowing footfall town centre are that they live in detached houses and drive BMWs! But if you get down to basics some people will be begging to survive not through choice. And like I said before if the single option of begging is criminalised they will turn to worse crime to get money instead as in the eyes of the law they are a criminal anyway.
Dagg, as I have mentioned above – I primarily disagree with the being arrested and taken to court bit (if they are just peacefully begging). Moving them on, or taking them to a shelter/soup kitchen would be a more humane thing to do.
In terms of me asking who is behind what? As Arfon confirmed he disagrees with the whole thing then I want to know who else I can follow this up with as there are no named decision makers. Was it the Exec Board? Town Police Inspector? Etc…
This will al lead to trouble for the town. Some others more upset than me have already gotten in touch with the press/Channel 4. So it’s only a matter of time before it all blows up.
Well the round-up and criminalisation of homeless has begun, complete with a brag on social media and a hashtag that gives the disbelief that the entire town is behind this type of action.
— NWP Wrexham Town (@NWPWrexhamTown) May 11, 2018
Still unclear who is calling the shots behind all this.
Wonder how many more people refused their details though
Possibly quite a few 382 tickets issued in March vs 268 in April.
That’s a drop of 26% in revenues in just 1 month! I bet they are busting heads at Kingdom HQ.
Rob, is there any indicator over which actual named authority figures in the council/police/third sectors are actually behind this initiative?
As the North Wales Police Crime Commissioner Arfon confirmed on Twitter that he does not approve of it, so you have to wonder who is actually calling the shots and what their justifications are.
I think this needs to be sent for full council scrutiny as it doesn’t stand up as a faceless multi-organisational homeless swatter with nobody really knowing who is pulling the strings.
Has there been a law change recently?
People are often imprisoned for non-payment of fines. For some it can be failure to pay a fine for a TV licence offense.
You can go to prison for flat out refusal to pay a fine or certain priority debts (e.g. Council Tax) – You literally have to say something like “I refuse to pay this money because I don’t think I should/agree with it”. Or your lifestyle indicators point otherwise – e.g. you turn up to court in a Bugatti (exaggerated example).
However, you can’t go to prison for genuinely not being able to afford to pay and the courts actually have to find evidence/proof that you can do have means to pay – hence the use of bailiffs and seizure of assets. This is why debts and fines get enforced by other means – e.g. attachment of earnings, charges on properties etc…
This is not the case in the US, where in some states you have no choice but to serve jail time if you can’t afford to pay a fine, which is the modern equivalent of a debtors prison. There was something on it on the BBC.
Take that people talking from 5 years ago!
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