JoanTheHog
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[quote quote=117166]Back to the original point? Will this prevent the deadheads invading town via grosvenor road every day? Will it stop the dealers on lord street?
[/quote]To me an absolute NO. How do you know the dealers are on Lord St.?
As in my origonal posting its all about makeing MONEY, they write the rules pretending…. in reality its the all about MONEY!
[quote quote=117052]Ip addresses do not identify anyone.
Personal information could be obtained from the Internet provider via a court order provided there is just cause.Here is a report of one who ignored a summons and told the Mags to stick their summons. He got a month’s worth of free BB. There are no magic words that you can recant in court that get you off. You can challenge the court authority all you like.
http://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/freeman-refused-pay-council/story-14114588-detail/story.html
Here are a few more reports.
http://w.getoutofdebtfree.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=166&t=67136#.V59GhhIuCiw
Any one got any real court reports of anyone who won with FMOTL arguments in court? Because I can’t find any.
[/quote]Excellent post Andy, this is the sort of posting was after to possibly prove me WRONG. In all the research I have done I could not find anything like this to get anywhere near possibly proving me wrong.
However (yes there’s always a sting in the tail) in reading the posted narrative they probably won’t claim there is a contract as this Freemen has. They claim you have to pay Council Tax because the “UK Parliament” created a “law” that says so. How the opinions of this “UK Parliament” becomes “law” and how that applies to you & also why you have to obey – those are the real questions. They don’t abide by their own rules & they know they don’t, they know the rules are total crap because that’s all they are – rules – lines of narrative written on paper which let’s face it that’s all they are worth – the paper written on.
You say Andy you can’t get away with it, agree there is no concrete proof of anyone ever “getting away” with it but in a future thread will post quite a lot of info including links which in my opinion proves council tax is neither lawful or legal. As have said in a previous post in this thread there is a lot of evidence gathering now at such a pace it cannot be ignored.
In that case if as quoted he refused to give personal details somewhere along the line he must have given some info otherwise how was he identified? Also what must be established (I know it’s easy to comment when not in the situation itself) how does the “court” exactly have authority & jurisdiction over said chap? That question have posted several times which no-one has answered!
For those worried about threat of prison for not paying council tax follow this link:
http://www.hri.org/docs/ECHR50.html#P4.
Remember debtors’ prisons were scrapped at the end of the 1800s certainly finished off with the introduction of the welfare state in I think 1948, why should people be sent to prison for not paying that tax (how is it a crime? take those b’stards to task!)? Taxation without representation (proving ability to pay). In the above link that could be negated by the “court” claiming there is no contract, if not then why are people paying that tax? What agreement has been reached (contract)? Remember the comment I made about thresa may was asked on BBC – How does the gov’t govern? Her answer: By CONSENT. Therefore it stands to reason where is the consent for council tax to be paid? Coercion is not consent! Remember this coutry of hours is a Common Law juristiction – law of contracts. Answer this then, why do debt collection agents (DCA(s)) turn up with NO right of entry to your home (when supposed liability order is made)? Possibly NO contract to pay council tax – have you seen the program can’t pay we’ll take it away? those are high court bailiffs that can enter, why because at least 2 3rd parites will have entered into contract for something & 1 has not paid, goes to court & hey ho the rest is history.
Did anyone see the Imitation Game on channel 4 last night? About Alan Turing the code breaker in WW2 & what happened to him towards the end of his life (absolutely disgusting)? 1 day just as those so called anti “homosexual laws” were scrapped in 1967, those “laws” surrounding council tax will be scrapped – the sooner the better & not replaced with anything else. The whole idea of what happened to him was wrong just as the whole debacle over this tax is just too wrong, too many people are being hurt (more info in a later thread)
I know have gone off track a bit but I really feel so strongly about this, could gone on quite a bit.
Andy your link goodf.org did not work. But what a repository of info that site is!
[quote quote=117050]
wrexham.com at the bottom of the screen has it’s address as Lampit St. Wrexham – council monitored/hosted/run if incorrect will stand corrected but until proven otherwise it will stand as truth for me. CON-CIL TAX the amount of evidence I could post! No doubt there are council spooks/spies reading this, so watch this space!Joan, should’ve gone to Spec Savers … it Says :
Wrexham.com
Regent Street
Wrexham
LL11 1PF
Tel: 01978 288 288As for the monitoring … of course it is monitored and the Council now have your IP address so know who you are and where you live!
Regards
Agent X[/quote]I stand corrected!
To all that read this thread am open to fully debate this subject & would appreciate more input from readers. My last thread did 65 posts in 13 days could this be beaten?
[quote quote=117037]Apology accepted Joan, my point in this thread was that no matter how much you rage against the machine, you still get shafted, every time. Respect!
[/quote]Apology accepted Joan – I know my spelllllidkjfing is not what it schoood be.
my point in this thread was that no matter how much you rage against the machine, you still get shafted, every time.
Agree from evidence I have gathered (more to post in further threads) the whole system is designed to bring you down every time you appear in court over espcially in civil related matters regarding any so called “gov’t” related entity – you lose every time. wrexham.com at the bottom of the screen has it’s address as Lampit St. Wrexham – council monitored/hosted/run if incorrect will stand corrected but until proven otherwise it will stand as truth for me. CON-CIL TAX the amount of evidence I could post! No doubt there are council spooks/spies reading this, so watch this space!
[quote quote=117021]A lot of tit for tat here methinks
I just wish that the powers that be didn’t have to take these measures but I honestly can’t see what the answer is. I don’t want younger members of my family thinking that drug taking, alcohol misuse etc is normal accepted behaviour but what else are they to think if something isn’t done about it.
Like it or not, laws are usually there for a reason & the vast majority of right minded people abide by them. You always get a minority who spoil things for the majority.[/quote]A lot of tit for tat here methinks – that’s up for debate.
I just wish that the powers that be didn’t have to take these measures but I honestly can’t see what the answer is.
One might be if all drug users simply stopped that would put dealers out of business but that will possibly never happen. As for alcohol misuse again people do what ever & they are really the only ones who can stop drinking. Either giving power of attorney away or trying to allow others to take control of peoples’ lives will never work. People at the end of the day have to be responsible for thier own actions.
A good example of so called laws not working, in all the years/decades the anti drug laws have been around when did drug misuse stop altogether? To me this PSPO will never work, this has been backed up a post further back in this thread. To me it is nothing more than a bureaucratic measure to give so called officials more excuse to control/push thier so called authority more.
Like it or not, laws are usually there for a reason & the vast majority of right minded people abide by them. You always get a minority who spoil things for the majority.
To a point I will agree, however from what I have found a lot of “laws” are not fit for purpose & to me don’t make sense therefore should be scrapped yes this is one such, (I could give alot of examples but is too much for this thread). You have your own views “the vast majority of right minded people” OK that’s your opinion & open to further debate, I have learnt to question what I see, I share what have found, as have stated I only want an open debate on things & know some of my views may appear extreme but there is a lot of evidence gathering now at such a pace it can not be ignored.
You always get a minority who spoil things for the majority. – could you explain how I am in a minority? just because you are seeing this possibly for the 1st time how do you know that this is a minority view?
[quote quote=117020]I guarrentee the police/council twa*s will abuse this for thier own gain. Watch out!
I’m all for an open debate, but I thought this site had rules. Obviously I don’t agree with any of Joan’s views but he/she has every right to post them. He/she has an obvious dislike of any type of authority but to resort to childish, yet offensive name calling is out of order.
[/quote]I’m all for an open debate, but I thought this site had rules. – That is what I am really trying to promote here.
yet offensive name calling is out of order. Agree whole heartidly, some times I do admittedly get caught up in the moment. No offense was meant in any way.
He/she has an obvious dislike of any type of authority. – Carrying on this debate further, I was indoctrinated “in the ways of the world” I would imagine the same way you have been. Taught to respect police, teachers (when was in school), & indeed anyone that appeared to be “if you don’t do… then there are consequences…” if you see what I mean.
As have grown up & got on in life have always though there was something not quite right so started to question. Several years later gaining what knowledge I have I see things in a whole different perspective. What I have found YES that is quite true I don’t like what I see, I hope by sharing people can start to open their minds further & evolve things to thier own situation, that’s all. Am NOT in anyway trying to stir up hatered or negative feeling, just want honest open debate.
[quote quote=117015]Droan the hag, can you answer me this –
Have- YOU
ever been in court? Did
- YOU
actually stand up to the judge and tell him to stick his summons??
Have- YOU
every been stopped by the police? Did
- YOU
actually stand up to the officer and tell him to stick his advice/caution??
Ditto, Council Tax, income tax, fine etc…etc..??[/quote]At last coming from you a sensible set of questions. So to answer:
Have ever been in court? – Yes several times when I was younger – for what is irrelavent to this post.
Did actually stand up to the judge and tell him to stick his summons?? – No because I did not have the knowledge I have now.
Have every been stopped by the police? Yes.
Did actually stand up to the officer and tell him to stick his advice/caution??
Did try that once it was late at night & was tired so ended up caving in. Did offer initially to accept if he could prove… but they are not interested in proving guilt, from experience they only want “the money” (fines) or you to prove innocents beyond reasonable doubt because they are too incompatent in trying to take it further.
Ditto, Council Tax, income tax, fine etc…etc..?? Never had to, to be honest. After gaining knowledge there are too many pit falls & have too much going on in my life at the moment. But will say this, should I find myself unable to pay whatever then will be much better equipped to deal with it.
If you have any constructive criticism/questions by all means post & will answer if I can.
Liz thank you for the support. What some readers fail to see & possibly appreciate that if anyone is summonsed to court over this, if they attack the “bench” direct head on & demand (don’t be polite & ask) to know how do statues/acts apply to Humans & prove do Humans actually have to obey. If you research a speech made by Sir Jack Beeston (Lord Cheif Justice) in 2008 at Nottingham & Trent Uni (which is the public record at the main legislative web site – I think http://www.legislative.co.uk) in that the relationship between “state” & “Person” is that of equal status – a peer relationship. In other words NO legal entity has authority over the other. Even question the “bench” where does their authority come from – even if they say they are under oath & show Oath of Office.
For those that think this is utter shite will post more evidence if you wish.
[quote quote=116999]Ok, no offence intended, so, some tosser has actually given you a job, probably some government scheme to get plebs off the streets and back to work, the point I was trying to make is, if you sign on or if you work, you have to do so at a predetermined time by someone in authority or you don’t get paid, you smart arse! So shut the front door! Offence intended.
[/quote]So shut the front door! Offence intended. OK blah blah what ever!
Have read what have written several times including the other posts in this thread, fail to see or perhaps you can point out EXACTLY WTF my so called employment status has to do with that PSPO?
