Forum Replies Created
Although I can see your point Rohelendus MRICS, FCIOB (if you are real!), the covenant on the site requires us to use it for educational purposes and it is far, far cheaper to rip down the school and throw up a new build.
Too many people point the finger at us wasting money or complain about trivial matters such as priority parking for top Managers and Councillors (which we do need!) but wouldn’t it be far worse throwing bags of money into repairing an old school when we could save a fortune building a new school?
My suggestion to convert the building into a half way house for prisoners released into the community once HMP Wrexham opens or to house immigrants was thrown out because of the covenant and the cost involved in fixing the Groves but I am now of the opinion that Erlas House would be a cost ehttp://www.wrexham.com/forums/topic/the-groves-school-structure-and-condition#topic-replyffective option for the Council.
Its a shame that the Groves has to go but a new school will bring many construction jobs to Wrexham, just as the Prison has.
dear councillors x ( if indeed you are real) I don’t recall the half way house EVER being proposed in the council, you make the point about the educational covenant on the site. That is why ,when the council was Labour led ( May 2012-September 2015 ) we had an agreement with Coleg Cambria to fashion plans to so use it. It was the group you obviously support who pulled out of this plan in November 2015 and are ” rushing to demolish ” with out the bother of consulting the people of Wrexham.
I have a challenge for you that you launch a petition to continue the dedicated parking for councillors ,which you seem to see as a priority for the people who elected you and see how many signatures you get!
Why is it that Councillors who had been part of the Executive in the past with Labour are now coming out to save the Groves– why didn’t they act when they had the chance to have stopped the deterioration and get the building back to use.
I wonder if it has anything to do with it being a Welsh Government election year and Local Government next year!! Pre election stand on issues that have been neglected for moire than 10 years.
As one of those Labour executive members am only guilty of consistency. When Labour was the largest group the Land and Building group ,chaired by Councillors Malcolm King promoted and got the working in partnership with Coleg Cambria to make positive use of the site after the previous seven years of neglect.It is the Tory-Independent group who pulled out of this arrangement with little if no reasons for doing so. ( see Wrexham.com -November 2015 ) Then two months later with no consultation and meagre rationale they “rush to demolish.
I am sure that how this plays out in the near future it will be an issue in the 2017 council elections.
I for one will ensure this is so.
It is a crying shame that the Groves School has been left the rot and now the Council (elected by the people) think they can single headedly demolish a beautiful historic building, yet again blowing away attractive architecture from the heart of Wrexham. If the Councillors and those working within the council on behalf of the electorate are not up to the job, then a third party should be brought in to examine the business case for a new school taking into consideration the catchment area, traffic planning, bus routes and so forth. Personally, having witnessed day after day all the fetching and carrying in cars to and from schools and the transport hassle created, the school should be built on a brown field industrial site close to the edge of town to the highest standards we can afford. Transport routes would be simpler and other anti-social problems minimised. The beautiful Groves building could be turned into very nice apartments of varying sizes with lots of parking for residents and visitors alike. Of course, my idea would need a decent sized purse from a property developer, but it is possible.
This solution I proposed would keep the facade at least and remove the traffic issues from the centre of town that is already bulging at the seams and certainly not a nice prospect getting around between 8.30 and 10.00 and 2.30pm – 6.00pm.
My point entirely. The development plan the council is working on does identify the need for 10,5oo-11,000 new dwellings up to 2028 and Wrexham town is top of the hierarchy ( see report to Planning committee 4\1\2016 ). It also say infrastucture such as new school, Health centres and the like should be as close to the “New Build” to prevent excess car journeys and the strain on the highways network. To add another school run or more to this area of town ,when new build is likely elsewhere is sheer lunacy ,leaving aside the “municipal vandalism ” supported by the executive board .
Sorry Phil but this is trying to justify your position of closing down our last council run care home.
You say that points could be put through one spokesperson and Councillor Dana Davies did a steering job.
But one spokesperson can not represent views of two or more democratically elected groups and there is a ” deficit ” in this made up ruling ,which is not in the council’s constitution.
For ” disaffected” read any democratically elected councillor who does not swallow wholesale every policy of the ruling Tory-Independent group. On your final point on the council make up it is not a matter of the group numbers it is the thrust of the policies and my ex colleagues should be ” hanging their heads with shame.”
You say the call-in was an opportunity to listen to additional points provided by the signatories (plural.) Well self evidently that was not the case as I for one was denied the chance to do that, hence the ” shambolic ” nature of the meeting- Wrexham.com’s words not mine.
You seek value for money but have been a member of the council which saw the occupancy of Nant Silyn dwindle from 84% in September 2011 to <25% now. There is a huge cost in both social and financial terms in those figures.
You ask our local representatives to follow the Tory/Independent mantra of privatisation of care homes.
One of the points I was denied to emphasise was that this market is extremely fragile. UK Care Home Association reckon some providers could soon go out of businesses and Dr Sarah Wollaston ( a Tory MP!) is asking the Chancellor of the Exchequer for extra help for this sector in the Autumn Statement. ( Good luck with that!)
On a final point you say no-one can be compelled to go to Nant Silyn but it is a matter of record that once they or their relatives have chosen that home they could be denied it and I have spoken directly to relatives who’s relations were prevented from following their choice and stayed in hospital for 8-9 weeks ,although ready to move on and in my professional life I am all too aware of the pressure that puts on the individual and the wider care system
The planning officer is a professional, the others are there due to their ability to wear a red rosette.
Not sure whether you can understand this but only 5 red rosette wearers on planning out of 20 and planning is an area where there is no whip and each councillor makes his or her mind up based on the facts.
More widely it should be noted this a Tory – Independent led council, the Labour group being a minority of 13 out of 52. You only have to look at the policies!
Andrew why did the then Labour controlled Council withdraw their grant support for the Science Festival– were you not one of those Labour Councillors
Dylan :- you will have to more specific. I can remember putting the then council Leader on the spot about the Science Festival but I can’t recall voting to withdraw their funding. when was that?
When the councillors were elected the ‘job description’ stated that most meetings would take place in the evenings. Now, half way through their elected terms the goal posts have moved. A bit unfair on working councillors.
not according to one councillor quoted at the meeting who said ” when councillors sign up they committ to a meeting schedule “. Totally misses your point that these rushed changes happened 60% of the way through a council term!
To my mind, it is irrelevant at what time a meeting is scheduled to start. The outcome of most of the meetings is a foregone conclusion where decisions have been taken beforehand, debate expressing a contrary opinion stifled and the professional advice of Officers ignored.
The meetings that I have observed have been a pure facade, meaningless and totally undemocratic.
Members are allowed to get away with half truths, embellishments and downright misrepresentation without challenge. The sooner the better that free debate without the use of bullying tactics is utilised.
Only then, are we more likely to get decisions that benefit all rather than the indulgences of those of a certain party political persuasion.
Whilst not necessarily disagreeing with all your points I would argue that Planning is an exception.
There is, or should be no whip or pre agreement in this committee and debate is often long and detailed on ” contentious matters. A great difference is with planning members of the public like to attend to hear the debate on applications affecting their neighbourhood. Again we must monitor if this is affected by the earlier start.
Agree totally with your first point amazing none of them has seen fit to put their new found agendas to their electorate.
As to your last point don’t give them ideas- they already stifle the members questions ,change meeting times to inconvenience any working people, carers, people with family considerations from participation-I could go on. So all Part 2 would not be a big leap !
@chris 19950 wrote:
I’m guessing if you are truly independent then every vote is a free vote. No disaplnery action for not towing the party line. Also with the predicted hung parliament the independents could end up quite powerful
You would think so Chris- rarely happens so you have the bizarre spectacle of ex labour and trade union supporters voting to diminish an independent appeals process to stay in with their new buddies!
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