January 15, 2019 at 4:42 pm #161869
MP1953 – what was explained to you in the Leave Campaign on what you were going to get if Brexit was voted for? What was your understanding of our future relationship with the EU?January 15, 2019 at 5:18 pm #161874
Ioan y FfinParticipant
The problem for Brexit supporters is that following their winning the referendum by a 4% margin in June 2016 : 1) Nigel Farage resigned from the leadership of UKIP and he and his party rapidly became a total irrelevance 2) Brexit supporting Tories like Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and Andrea Leadsom all stood for the Tory party leadership and then withdrew as soon as things got difficult 3) Boris, David Davies, Dominic Raab and Liam Fox proved to be all talk and no action once they joined Theresa May’s cabinet 4) the ERG were asked to put forward their own plans for Brexit but have suggested nothing of substance 5) the clique around Rees-Mogg shout a lot but don’t have the collones to actually take on the responsibility of government; it took them an age to actually organize a vote of confidence and they messed that up…these are just a few examples of where Brexit supporting politicians have been found wanting and not up to the job. They have made a total dogs’ brexit of the whole business over the past two and a half years and consequently we are in the position we are in today. It is now up to our MPs, including Mr Lucas, to sort out the mess the Government and its Brexit supporters have created. I am afraid Brexit voters have been let down and you have no one to blame but your political leaders here in the UK.January 15, 2019 at 5:28 pm #161877
I totally agree with the stance being taken by Ian Lucas in tonights vote in the House of Commons.
He is in a far better position than anyone on this forum to make a sensible decision, based on the premise that he is undoubtedly aware of the full facts, unlike those who purport to know it all from what they read in the tabloids.
An MP has responsibilities to their constituents, parliament and their party and indeed, the whole Country.
Politicians from all sides of the house are in agreement that the proposed deal is bad for the Country, hence the very likely defeat of the proposals tonight.
I do wish that contributors to this debate and to others that appear on this forum, when confronted with matters of national importance stop thinking pariochially and think what is good for the country rather than in their insignificant semi rural backwater.
Go for it Ian, you are doing the right thing.January 15, 2019 at 5:52 pm #161878
This is a good article that lists all of the failings that this Brexit Deal by Theresa May has led to it being almost inevitably doomed. It’s a bit of a long read.
But the short sound bite you need to know from it is:
Just as May failed to build rapport with her European counterparts, she failed to develop a relationship with the British people, refusing to listen to their concerns about austerity or seek the losers’ consent by negotiating a Brexit deal that worked for the whole country. Despite constant claims of commitment to the union, she showed almost no respect for the devolved governments – nor indeed for the trades union movement or wider civil society.January 15, 2019 at 5:53 pm #161879
I and many other people 17 odd million I think it was voted to leave for various reasons with only leave or remain on the ballot paper.
Over 400 constitucies of the mp,s on both the Labour and Conservative benches was a majority to leave.
Wrexham was over whelmingly to leave, Ian Lucas should bear this in mind, he’s right to vote against this deal tonight but probably not for the right reasons.
The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is.January 15, 2019 at 9:13 pm #161881
Problem is that Theresa May is a remainer therefore the wrong person to negotiate a Brexit deal.January 15, 2019 at 9:35 pm #161884
We voted to leave the European union as a country by a majority, exactly the same way as the country voted in successful governments over my generation and before. The Government won its last term of office on the promise they would deliver on that vote. Whatever deal Europe has proposed it was never going to be beneficial to the UK.If we get to pull out and negotiate a cushy deal, others might follow suit (which may not necessarily be a bad thing, but the EU cannot afford to take that risk.
We have had 2 years of negative propaganda from the media. Remains campaign didn’t stop in 2016 when Leave won but just look at Europe now and imagine if it was a vote to actually join.
Un-elected Fat cat bosses
France on the brink of bankruptcy
Mass youth unemployment
€2.6 trillion quantitative easing debt to rollback somehow.
Anyone with any common sense wouldn’t touch it with a barge pole
Its time for our elected peers to come together and realize that this country was built on democracy with the right to vote part of that. They must deliver on that vote and take us out of Europe either with a deal that is good for us or no deal and we face the future with the World Trade Organisation.January 15, 2019 at 9:58 pm #161885
Um, why would the EU give us a cushy deal after we’ve pulled out? Don’t you think they’d want to discourage other states from doing that?January 15, 2019 at 10:05 pm #161887
Labour has been in power in Wrexham for over 80 years, Ian Lucas could end that run if he continues to go against the Wrexham people who voted leave.
Whilst on about Labour, the parliamentary Labour Party do not reflect the rank and file life long labour voters, myself included.
The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is.January 16, 2019 at 9:25 am #161898
(Yawn) you all shout democracy when it suits you, I can’t wait to smash every stupid thing the baby boomer generations have done to mine. Brexit is as stupid as the lies that made it and boy is it stupid, almost every fact you have to support is either wrong or twisted. It’ll be a cold day in hell when I let fat old men decide my life after we’ve buried you.
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