Wrexham Markets Scrutiny Committee on Weds + Council Report
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It seems to me the days of the market stall are done. apart from fruit and veg I can’t think of a product which is cheaper on a market than in a regular store.
The spaces of the market are good, they could be used well, but seeing as we can’t even fill the shops, how can we expect traders to take stalls on.
You could turn the smaller market in town into like an art centre, giving pitches to the college and uni allowing the art students to sell works, and business students to run business, there are some creative people in the town. but who wants to buy low grade clothing or cheep goods which would otherwise be purchased in a proper shop with a hope of money / back or exchange in any town in the area etc etc.
Time to wrap them up, or reuse them,
@angryShopper 3529 wrote:
It seems to me the days of the market stall are done. apart from fruit and veg I can’t think of a product which is cheaper on a market than in a regular store.
The spaces of the market are good, they could be used well, but seeing as we can’t even fill the shops, how can we expect traders to take stalls on.
You could turn the smaller market in town into like an art centre, giving pitches to the college and uni allowing the art students to sell works, and business students to run business, there are some creative people in the town. but who wants to buy low grade clothing or cheep goods which would otherwise be purchased in a proper shop with a hope of money / back or exchange in any town in the area etc etc.
Time to wrap them up, or reuse them,
I actually agree with some of this but not the negativity. It’s not about price in the year 2013 because the Internet and Supermarkets have this partly covered. Markets can offer a very wide range of produce and services that would never be available in the Supermarkets and which can be provided locally for those people that still want to actually shop. That is why a lot of Markets are dominated by specialists of one type or another, second hand stalls, bric-a-brac as well as food. The type of things that good quality Markets will have include a good bookshop and someone like Stan in the Butcher’s Market Wrexham sells the type of thing that neither Waterstone’s or Tescos would. I agree with the idea of having Art and Crafts in Markets and where are the Potters with the Potter’s wheels, Fabric makers, T-Shirt printers, etc. The problem in Wrexham’s Markets lie in a mixture of overpriced stalls/shops, lack of Investment (of the rents collected), and very poor management of the resource.
The Report is a breath of fresh air and can turn around the Markets. The evidence of this, by the way, is in those towns that have intelligently done similar
Alunh;3534 wrote:I actually agree with some of this but not the negativity. It’s not about price in the year 2013 because the Internet and Supermarkets have this partly covered. Markets can offer a very wide range of produce and services that would never be available in the Supermarkets and which can be provided locally for those people that still want to actually shop. That is why a lot of Markets are dominated by specialists of one type or another, second hand stalls, bric-a-brac as well as food. The type of things that good quality Markets will have include a good bookshop and someone like Stan in the Butcher’s Market Wrexham sells the type of thing that neither Waterstone’s or Tescos would. I agree with the idea of having Art and Crafts in Markets and where are the Potters with the Potter’s wheels, Fabric makers, T-Shirt printers, etc. The problem in Wrexham’s Markets lie in a mixture of overpriced stalls/shops, lack of Investment (of the rents collected), and very poor management of the resource.The Report is a breath of fresh air and can turn around the Markets. The evidence of this, by the way, is in those towns that have intelligently done similar
If the council had a website that included all the sale items in the markets & employed a man with a van, it could compete against the home shopping iceland, asda, tesco et al.
Money from the website could then go to pay the council store rents plus gaining a small commission charge plus transport costs. The website would cost no more than what it pays the leader in advertising this week.
I agree that the negativity about wrexham in the post previous to yours. wrexham will not get better if people find excuses to knock it down, meaning they are to looking for an excuse to be lazy and not help..
Greetings everyone!
Im a trader in The Butchers Market.
I was very disapointed to see the Leaders article yesterday, the worst bit was the scaremongering headline on the front of the paper and on their A boards saying ‘Markets under threat’.
They are only under threat if nothing happens. The idea of the meeting on Wednesday is to discuss the ways to improve the markets, not close them down.
If the leader had read the entire report written by Peter Scott they would have seen this. Good news doesnt sell papers Im afraid though!
What the Leader have done is damage businesses in the markets with such senstationalist journalism.
I spoke to the writer of the article, Lois Hough, and she says that the headlines were not written by her. Editors up in mold seem to be to blame.
Since yesterdays mis-reporting I and many other traders have had customers who have ‘read’ the leaders headlines and put 2 and 2 together and have got 8. I have had many people say such things as ‘When are you closing?’, “Why are they closing the peoples market”, “are you moving to another market when they close this one”. Other traders have had similar.
One trader has even told me that she had an order cancelled yesterday for a big job as the customer was afraid of losing their money ‘when the market closes’.
There is a follow up article by Miss Hough today which reads better as it actually speaks to some of the traders themselves (me included) – but again, the headline isnt the best and the story is tucked away on page 5, so the damage has been done.
The leader have damaged the reputation of the markets and caused needless panic on the eve of what is a crucial meeting in which we can hopefully improve the markets.
Rob (Mad4movies)
I have worked out that from an occupancy rate of 70% which the markets are currently running at ,the operating profit to the Council is £160,000 per year, making the markets self financing.At an occupancy rate of 40% the Council would have to subsidise the market from the Council coffers.The meeting on 6th February will discuss the way forward, with a suggestion of a three year plan.Would it not be prudent of the Council to scap the three year plan and instigate the same plan over the next six months.A large stall has vacated the Peoples Market last week and I have heard that a tenant is working their notice on two stalls in another market.Time is of the essence,the markets can be turned around, carry out the suggestions and give the traders a chance.In the past they have contributed upwards of £250,000 per year into Council coffers.Now they need help quickly.Councillors their destiny is in your hands,please help them.
@thewayneinspain 3535 wrote:
If the council had a website that included all the sale items in the markets & employed a man with a van, it could compete against the home shopping iceland, asda, tesco et al.
Money from the website could then go to pay the council store rents plus gaining a small commission charge plus transport costs. The website would cost no more than what it pays the leader in advertising this week.
I agree that the negativity about wrexham in the post previous to yours. wrexham will not get better if people find excuses to knock it down, meaning they are to looking for an excuse to be lazy and not help..
Absolutely spot on. This of course requires proactive management. The Council is aware that this is lacking and has been longterm. Sadly the Market has had both a structural deficiency within its Management approach and a Personnel problem. There is a culture of indifference which would not be tolerated in the Private sector. Management in any environment has to manage and this is about managing the given and developing what is needed to move the whole on.
I am guessing that this area will come under the microscope.
@jimbow 3546 wrote:
I have worked out that from an occupancy rate of 70% which the markets are currently running at ,the operating profit to the Council is £160,000 per year, making the markets self financing.At an occupancy rate of 40% the Council would have to subsidise the market from the Council coffers.The meeting on 6th February will discuss the way forward, with a suggestion of a three year plan.Would it not be prudent of the Council to scap the three year plan and instigate the same plan over the next six months.A large stall has vacated the Peoples Market last week and I have heard that a tenant is working their notice on two stalls in another market.Time is of the essence,the markets can be turned around, carry out the suggestions and give the traders a chance.In the past they have contributed upwards of £250,000 per year into Council coffers.Now they need help quickly.Councillors their destiny is in your hands,please help them.
I had a discussion with the Head of Economic Development perhaps 2 years ago Jim and he suggested that perhaps 10% of the Rents raised by the People’s Market are all that are required by the Council to maintain the Markets (when the People’s Market is full). This might understate the actual figure but I am guessing that perhaps 20% covers the costs that are not targeted by the Service Charges. I presume that this means things like Depreciation and Repair. What this means in practice is that a full People’s Market would provide a Revenue return to the Council coffers per annum that far exceeds what the Council could generate by closing the asset (or selkling it). Accordingly the main point of emphasis for the traders has to be to stress that the Golden Goose needs to be occasionally fed if it is to laying the goodies. This is, therefore, a vastly different position than the traders asking for fresh money (to be sourced from alternative budgets). What the traders are asking for is a logical Capital reinvestment of surplus rents in the name of long term asset enhancement and in the best interests of the Community
Alunh;3548 wrote:I had a discussion with the Head of Economic Development perhaps 2 years ago Jim and he suggested that perhaps 10% of the Rents raised by the People’s Market are all that are required by the Council to maintain the Markets (when the People’s Market is full). This might understate the actual figure but I am guessing that perhaps 20% covers the costs that are not targeted by the Service Charges. I presume that this means things like Depreciation and Repair. What this means in practice is that a full People’s Market would provide a Revenue return to the Council coffers per annum that far exceeds what the Council could generate by closing the asset (or selkling it). Accordingly the main point of emphasis for the traders has to be to stress that the Golden Goose needs to be occasionally fed if it is to laying the goodies. This is, therefore, a vastly different position than the traders asking for fresh money (to be sourced from alternative budgets). What the traders are asking for is a logical Capital reinvestment of surplus rents in the name of long term asset enhancement and in the best interests of the CommunityWhen was the last time the F&Fs & Es were invested in? Assuming that building work is depreciated over 25 years. I would expect that fixtures & fittings and equipment are either over 5 or ten years, so the stalls and F&F should be paid for and ready for new investment… Feeding time for the golden goose so to speak.
Its worth remembering its a meeting tonight that the public is invited to – so if you can – pop down! :)
If you haven’t been to a council meeting before, why not make it your first – they are not that scary!
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