The Groves School – Structure and Condition
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Posts
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Hi Dragon,
As a taxpayer I don’t want to see my money wasted either. Mark Pritchard and Michael Williams quote figures that are grossly over-stated. They claim it took £900,000 over the last ten years to mothball the school. If you look at the figures, you will see that £121,000 has been spent on grounds maintenance, work that doesn’t include caring for the Groves building. Add a further £278,000 which was used to demolish the modern part of the building over two years ago. Most of the remaining money went to utilities while the building was still being used (the heating costs were astronomical AND included heating the buildings that were demolished). The actual costs for the building once left completely empty has dropped significantly.
Last year the net expenditure was just over £19,000, of which £15,000 went towards grounds maintenance. This sum is miniscule compared to what is stated.
Add to this the reality of what it is going to cost to demolish the building. It is most likely that in order to place a primary or faith based school on the site will cost the taxpayers (us) a lot of money to legally challenge the set covenants on the site. Ditto if the council attempts to have more than one school on the site. The covenants only allow one school building on the site, except for accessory buildings in association with the playing fields.
The cost of creating a new, fit for purpose 21st Century school is starting to look as a more costly option to me. Re-using a structure that was over-engineered (as they were at the time), has outlived a more modern extension and will likely outlast a new build (the new Gwenfro has a 35 year life span) I believe refurbishing the building is a better choice.
I could go on as there is so much more to say, but for the sake of brevity I will stop here. I hope I have given you somethings to think about and that you will reconsider your stance.
Best,
LynneLynne the figures don’t surprise me – the Council have a history of d’creative’ accounting — just ask those who took over Plas Madoc Leisure Centre and the level of recharges and ‘inappropriate’ costs that had been attributed to that Centre to justify closure.
Council Watcher,
Perhaps I am naive when I hope for an open, transparent and honest council? My involvement started when I attended the January 12th council meeting in the hopes of a better outcome for the Groves school. I was appalled to witness such disrespectful, manipulative and dismissive behaviour by members of the Executive Board.
Over the past 4 months I have met many a good councillor, so I know they shouldn’t all be painted with the same brush. It is just sad to see the voice of reason being ignored by individuals who have more power than their capabilities should allow.
Cheers,
LynneHi Lynne,
My stance on the groves remains the same, cadw who on two occasions has refused requests to list the building which has stood empty for over 12 years and is now derelict at a cost of £900,000 to the taxpayers of Wrexham, regardless of where the money was spent it was still used for the groves site. I fail to understand why a small minority of Wrexham residents and it is a small number compared to the overall population of the town are so against progress and building a new state of the art school, we should be looking to the future not living in the past.
Dragon the potential is that the building (parts of) could easily be incorporated into state of the art facility. No one is against progress or forward thinking.
Why is it that the Leader of the Council and the Chair of St Mary’s have taken till now to come up with the need for the replacement school. Where have they been for the past 10 years — we have not suddenly got all these extra children to educate.
I agree the payment of £900k is a disgrace – but this is to do with Council Members and Officers dragging their feet– or was it they had hopped to lift the covenant and sell for development. It is their lack of action that has cost the County £900k not the campaigners.Dragon
Dragon,The last request for a Listing.. was performed by an Inspector/Surveyor whose brief was modern ie. post World War 2 buildings. Hence the Inspector/Surveyor focussed on the buildings built in the post war era.
I have documentary information that states clearly that the results of the Survey take by CADW in 2008 has no reflection on the current Request for a Listing, and will not affect the decision in regard to the original buildings .. which Still Stand.As to the moneys … the analysis presented are correct, NOT £900,000. The use of that figure masks everything and is fabric of lies.
As far as the building being Derelict, that to is WRONG. Delapidated or Neglected may be more closely to the truth. Damage is superficial and cause only by vandalism … grafitti and also neglect by the Council.
How do I know this… because as a Professional in field. I am regularly looking at Listed Buildings and I also have documentary proof. Don’t be too rigid in holding to your opinions without having the background of factual knowledge. I am sure that had you been given the true facts your views would have been different.
Kind regards
Rohelendus MRICS FCIOB
Hi Rolends,
what you get up to in your own field – professionally or not – is none of my business, and I am certainly no expert, but while the façade [outside to you chief] looks in a reasonable just needs re-pointing and replacing of the facia [try Safestyle & BOGOFMF] kind of way, I have it on very good authority that the inside is derelict, dilapidated & neglected, and the damage is unfortunately much more than superficial and whether caused by vandalism, graffiti or neglect by the Council it is possibly beyond ECONOMICAL repair. Ok so the building should have been secured many years ago, and perhaps someone should be brought to account for this, but it was not and no amount of accusations and finger pointing will repair the damage caused by the water ingression via the damaged windows and roof, not to mention the ‘vandalism’ caused internally to the water pipes which was very evident by the beautiful ice formations spewing out the ground floor windows every winter for the last few years!
Now if I were an expert in these things, I may have noticed the neglect creeping into [or out of] the building and maybe, just maybe highlighted it to the appropriate authorities or local press many years ago. Maybe a call to Nick Knowles & the SOS team is the only answer! As I have posted on this thread before, if the building could be saved, then that would be fantastic – far too many things have been lost to this so called town [or some buildings within half a ring road as I like to think of it as] – but I am also a realist, and if people want to help then be proactive, positive and clever – look around the place, look at your own house, your street, your area, make a note of it and report things, damaged trees, broken street furniture etc. – don’t come on here bleating that ‘me street light has been off for 6 months’ or ‘there’s rubbish in my alleyway’ – just report it, get a reference number then chase it up. Oooohhh! It makes me mad!!
Kind regardsDaave63 – Cycling Proficiency & 25yrds Front Crawl Certificates
Daave. You state that you ‘have it on good authority’. Would you care to state your source? If not do not challenge my assertion.
At this point I shall leave all debates with you, as your main intent in most posts you make in these forums appear to be solely designed to disrupt or turn serious matters into jokes which divert from the serious matters discussed.
Kind regards Rohelendus MIRCS FCIOB. :)Morning Roland,
A lady never revels her sauce, but lets leave it as being an inside job!
I am dismayed if you feel that my main intent in most posts I make in these forums appear to be solely designed to disrupt or turn serious matters into jokes which divert from the serious matters discussed – although you 100% right in that respect as I have made some semi-serious points on here but come on Rowland, lighten up a bit!
regards
Daave.—————————————————————————–
CAST THE BAIT & REEL THEM IN.
—————————————————————————–Well the campaign to save the Groves has been won — now the campaigners really have to start working to ensure that the site in incorporated into the plans for the new St Mary’s Primary School. They should negotiate with Coleg Cambria to buy their plans for the site as they included keeping elements of the Groves.
Lets hope the Council act honourably and work with the group to progress the planning for the new school or will it be another 10 years by which time the whole building will be ready to collapse- or the current regime drag their feet till after next years Local Government election in May and pass the buck to others to deal with as many will no doubt lose their seats based on their current track record of running the Council..
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