Lucas the Gonner gets Reprieve

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  • #173615

    yellowdot
    Participant

    Like many I’m thoroughly disenchanted with our political parties at present. Maybe the LibDems aren’t as bad as the two major parties but when I see people advocating a vote for the Brexit party then I realise that the world has gone mad. Apart from leaving Europe they have no policies and have a leader who has milked the system for years. He knows that even when leaving Europe he has a pension of over £700k per annum. The man is a good speaker but that’s it, nothing substantial to offer.

    #173621

    MargaretA
    Participant

    [quote quote=173615]Like many I’m thoroughly disenchanted with our political parties at present. Maybe the LibDems aren’t as bad as the two major parties but when I see people advocating a vote for the Brexit party then I realise that the world has gone mad. Apart from leaving Europe they have no policies and have a leader who has milked the system for years. He knows that even when leaving Europe he has a pension of over £700k per annum. The man is a good speaker but that’s it, nothing substantial to offer.[/quote]
    A large part of our difficulty at present is that it was apparent that no one advocating Brexit three years ago had a plan for proceeding after Brexit, and still do not.
    I hope that many people are concerned, as I am, about the country in general and that Brexit has caused inaction on so many fronts. The whole country looks defeated. There are complaints here in Wrexham about the homeless on our streets, empty derelict shops, uncut verges and weed filled gutters. Believe most of the country looks like that.

    #173642

    billycoen
    Participant

    No one in the then government ever expected the result to be leave,so three and a bit years later and with an ex Prime minister who was a remainer anyway, this is where we are at.We can only put a cross against what’s on the ballot paper,there are no intricate details,but apparently seventeen million people are to be ignored.

    #173647

    Matt
    Participant

    [quote quote=173642]No one in the then government ever expected the result to be leave,so three and a bit years later and with an ex Prime minister who was a remainer anyway, this is where we are at.We can only put a cross against what’s on the ballot paper,there are no intricate details,but apparently seventeen million people are to be ignored.[/quote]

    You are either ignoring around 17m people or you are ignoring 16m people. Either way it’s a large volume of people pissed off.

    According to the European Referendum Bill 2015-2016 – The Referendum does not contain any requirement for the UK Government to implement the results of the referendum. It influences the Government in its policy decisions. The UK does not have constitutional provisions that would require the results of the referendum to be implemented.

    https://fullfact.org/europe/was-eu-referendum-advisory/

    What this means in principle is that in order for Brexit to be carried out successfully Brexiteers must:

    i) Vote in a Government that is actually willing to implement Brexit (i.e. all its MPs are actually on board and the party wants Brexit to happen)

    ii) Vote in a Government that is actually capable of implementing Brexit – (i.e. have an overall majority to push legislation through, are competent enough to negotiate with the EU, have a convincing enough contingency plan to make sure everything runs smoothly in the event of a no deal)

    Conversely anyone who wants to stop Brexit just needs to vote in a Government or coalition with a majority sufficient and willing to stop it.

    That is the democratic process – and the only way forward either way because nobody is legally bound to do any RE: the referendum result.

    #173649

    billycoen
    Participant

    All seems a bit dodgy to me,what happened to the will of the people blah blah blah.

    #173650

    Matt
    Participant

    [quote quote=173649]All seems a bit dodgy to me,what happened to the will of the people blah blah blah.[/quote]

    The briefing with these facts was published on 3 June 2015 apart of the House of Commons Library – over a year before the referendum.

    Will of the People is just an angry shouty opinion formed after the referendum.

    #173667

    billycoen
    Participant

    Just one more question then I,m done,,what was the point of the referendum?

    #173673

    zinger
    Participant

    Having just listened to politicians on Question Time, I hold out no hope that referendums, general elections, ‘peoples vote’ (whatever that means) will make the slightest difference to Brexit.

    There will never be compromise irrespective of party, and without somebody giving way nothing will change. Boris Johnson would not be my choice of Prime Minister but I do agree with him about one thing. To be able to negotiate, you need to keep some of your cards close to your chest. Opposition parties & his own party alike have seen to it that there is no room to negotiate.

    I see no point in going to the polls again as I am saddened that democracy is dead.

    I don’t remember anyone arguing the result of a very low turn out Welsh devolution referendum, something I disagreed with because of our reliance on NHS treatment on the other side of the border but nevertheless we accepted the result.

    #173674

    Matt
    Participant

    [quote quote=173667]Just one more question then I,m done,,what was the point of the referendum?[/quote]

    So David Cameron after feeling cocksure in his victory in the Scot IndyRef could pull another blinder and fend of those pesky UKIP types once and for all who were slowly syphoning off the harder right element of the Tories, which itself had largely gone a bit soft after 5 years of coalition with the Lib Dem’s.

    Oh and also to appease the ever nagging Eurosceptic element of the Tories (equivalent of Today’s ERG group).

    In the game plan it was a referendum that was meant to be played out and won comfortably by Remain as the majority of Tories, Labour, Lib Dem’s and SNP backed the Remain position.

    Which is why he resigned when they lost because he had no intention of ever carrying Brexit out in the first place. Anyone who would fill his shoes had no intention of carrying it out either.

    Bizarrely Farage thought his job was done and stood down as UKIP leader and caused their collapse. He felt like he only had to get everyone through the door.

    Now Cameron left us with this colossal mess – nice one Dave!

    #173683

    steveg
    Participant

    I think every match played by Wrexham FC so far this season should be replayed now, because I don’t think the results were right….

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