Llan y Pwll link road / Gresford roundabout

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  • #58941

    Robert
    Member

    If it is being used as a ‘racetrack’ the statistics would suggest that it is being done so safely.

    #58918
    Robert;3780 wrote:
    If it is being used as a ‘racetrack’ the statistics would suggest that it is being done so safely.

    please can you provide us with the statistics?

    #58950

    Huw
    Participant

    So, cars travelling over 100mph side by side, trying to outdo each other is safe is it?? This happens regularly on this piece of road.

    #58942

    Robert
    Member

    @thewayneinspain 3782 wrote:

    please can you provide us with the statistics?

    Rather than make something up(!) you need to go back to the link road plan published by the WCBC in 2009, which uses figures from 2002 to make it’s justifications.

    On page 35 of numbered pages there were two fatal and three serious accidents in the ‘Llan-y-pwll area’ – suitably vague.

    So ‘official’ statistics are hard to come by – or don’t exist.

    What we do have is Wrexham.com – an exhaustive search for:

    llanypwll, llan-y-pwll, pwll, link road, and A5156 generates just three accident reports since Wrexham.com began. None fatal, though as we should be aware the outcome of the most recent accident may not yet be resolved.

    Further Google generates no hits for accidents other than those noted.

    There is a further inference of safety by the lack of safety cameras, or any facility for them.

    As an aside in the latest year for which there are figures (from the DfT)

    UK has 31 road deaths per million of population, Spain has 45 per million.

    #58943

    Robert
    Member

    @Big H 3790 wrote:

    So, cars travelling over 100mph side by side, trying to outdo each other is safe is it?? This happens regularly on this piece of road.

    Proof of speed? or does it just look fast?

    #58919
    Robert;3799 wrote:
    Rather than make something up(!) you need to go back to the link road plan published by the WCBC in 2009, which uses figures from 2002 to make it’s justifications.

    On page 35 of numbered pages there were two fatal and three serious accidents in the ‘Llan-y-pwll area’ – suitably vague.

    So ‘official’ statistics are hard to come by – or don’t exist.

    What we do have is Wrexham.com – an exhaustive search for:

    llanypwll, llan-y-pwll, pwll, link road, and A5156 generates just three accident reports since Wrexham.com began. None fatal, though as we should be aware the outcome of the most recent accident may not yet be resolved.

    Further Google generates no hits for accidents other than those noted.

    There is a further inference of safety by the lack of safety cameras, or any facility for them.

    As an aside in the latest year for which there are figures (from the DfT)

    UK has 31 road deaths per million of population, Spain has 45 per million.

    Thank you for providing the facts.

    I still think that the first stretch to the borras road roundabout should be a 50, because of reasons i mentioned before, but the stats presented do argue the case that it’s not an accident hot spot.

    I didn’t know the brit v span stat, but did know that in catalunya its 47, but 12 years ago it was 142…

    #58920

    just to add that there is a world health organisation report on the catalunyan campaign to increase road safety saying the it has saved the region 18 billion since the start of the century. So there is a capitalist argument for safer roads.

    #58934

    Sam
    Participant

    Fascinating detailed report on UK accidents.

    Reports | Institute of Advanced Motorists | The Institute of Advanced Motorists – The UK

    Speed isn’t the biggest threat, bad judgment & bad driving beat it !

    #58944

    Robert
    Member

    Wayne, you illustrate how to not take stats at face value – the Spanish have made a quite stupendous improvement in their road safety figures – they appear to attribute it to a more visible policing policy – my Spanish is awful and the google translator’s not much better!

    Compare that with the barely visible policing in the UK, I can almost not remember the time I last saw a traffic car out and about. Speed cameras don’t catch drinkers or druggies or tailgaters or mobile phoners or…. etc etc, but if there was a chance that you may be seen and stopped? I don’t think more speed limits are the answer because the ones in force now cannot afford to be enforced by appropriate observation and patrolling – people soon learn where the cameras are, and are likely to be. Speed cameras save pennies and waste pounds.

    Wayne as you suggest, road fatalities cost billions, but the complete lack of ‘not in my budget’ joined up thinking in the UK prevents the savings being made in lives and money.

    Sam, interesting reading… :D – indeed one of the three crashes to be found on Wrexham.com regarding the link road, was a single vehicle accident where the lady ‘lost control of her vehicle’ – where speed was not indicated as a potential cause – we may surmise, however there is no evidence.

    #58921

    My view on the llan y pwll link road is not one of the speed causes the accident more to do with that it is human nature to put the foot to the floor there and not spend time concentrating on looking out for problems ahead. And the reason why they do that, it because a very high percentage of the drivers have just come off the by pass and still have the muscle memory feeling at being at a momentum going at 70mph as well as their gas pedal foot having it too. That’s speaking as a psychology graduate not as a driver.

    Reducing the speed there, reduces the time they aren’t concentrating and giving them more thinking time when an accident does happen to avoid a bigger accident. make sense?

    Re catalan system (can’t speak for the spanish one.)

    • hardly any police out looking at roads because of the many marches & demos take away so many police manpower hours.
    • yet to see a speed camera in catalunya
    • But speed limits have reduced
    • Traffic calming e.g. narrower lanes, less lanes, less meeting of traffic lanes, etc
    • more separate Bicycle lanes.
    • roads made safer. e.g. less two way directional traffic as tunnels or bridges have been built where once they met on the same level.
    • the argentinians, bolivians & ecuadorians have gone home because there are less jobs (tongue in cheek!)

    re: mobiles phones use, smoking is just as bad, some of my closest misses have been from smokers not concentrating.

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