Litter Patrol Chased off Anglesey – Kingdom Come?

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  • #148538

    Matt
    Participant

    http://www.northwaleschronicle.co.uk/news/16202406.Kingdom_withdrew_from_Anglesey_after_fearing_for_safety_of_its_officers/

    You have to wonder how much longer Kingdom will stay in operation around Wrexham when they have shown massive weakness and cowardice in Anglesey. They are claiming that they were concerned about the safety of their officers as members of the public increasingly challenged the issuing of FPNs.

    We know they have no real authority as the police have categorically stated they won’t assist them in Wrexham if someone refuses to give their details and we now know that not only are people rejecting their fines across North Wales, there are also teams of spotters diligently letting people know currently where they are in operation at any given time and their officers have all been photographically profiled. So people know who to look out for.

    This and the fact that a number of the supermarkets are actively banning them from their car parks, with Aldi stating they would get their store manager to remove any Kingdom operatives from the site if any of their customers felt threatened.

    You can’t help but feel that with no authority and their intimidation tactics completely overturned that they are just going to turn into an embarrassing headache for councils – more hassle than they are worth.

    It is my understanding that more TV exposes about them are also coming. So interesting developments ahead.

    #148586

    Wrexham1
    Participant

    Once Councillor Bithell gets off his high horse and realises that the people of Wrexham aren’t daft enough to accept what are essentially illegaly issued fines, then Kingdom will be gone from the area. In the meantime, keep on refusing to give them your details. They might follow you for a while threatening you with the police but if you calmly ignore them and carry on walking they’ll soon give up and go for an easier target

    #148590
    AMA Express
    AMA Express
    Participant
    #148602

    Wrexham1
    Participant

    They’ve got a large turnover of staff, that’s why you often see Kingdom advertising jobs in Wrexham and indeed all of North Wales. Kingdom operatives have to issue so many fines per day otherwise they lose their jobs.

    #148604

    Andy
    Participant

    Interesting on how you are advising people to commit a criminal offence. You are legally obliged to give your details when required due to http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2005/16/section/19
    Kingdom are authorised by the Council to issue FPNs. Yes the Police will probably not attend any incident but If you are later identified it could be costly.

    A quick search reveals many people prosecuted for ignoring these.

    http://www.itv.com/news/wales/2016-02-16/litter-lout-who-gave-fake-details-to-escape-75-fine-gets-1-000-court-bill/
    http://newsroom.carmarthenshire.gov.uk/news-archive/2015/10/man-fined-for-littering-offence-and-giving-false-details/

    #148605

    Andy
    Participant

    Oh look!! They have a gallery where you can grass people up! LOL!

    https://www.rctcbc.gov.uk/EN/GetInvolved/Campaigns/WhoDoneIt/Whodoneit.aspx

    #148606

    Wrexham1
    Participant

    Kingdom Security have been overheard on the townlink radio a number of times asking for police assistance when something refuses to give their details. Each time, the reply from the police has been that they can’t legally get involved.

    Futherore, Kingdom Security don’t actually record alleged offences, they only switch their body cameras on when approaching people. So no one has to worry about being identified in the future as there will be no evidence on camera anyway

    #148613

    Matt
    Participant

    Those prosecutions listed above in the articles relate to people giving false information. People have been using the right to remain silent – it’s a refusal to interact or acknowledge these callous human beings – rather than someone explicitly saying ‘I refuse to give my details’ – although some might but then they could effectively implicate themselves doing this. On many occassions admission of guilt for receiving an FPN has been on the recorded confession or discussion relating to the dropping of litter as captured by a Kingdom Enforcer’s camera. Even the police or courts cannot force you to talk and implicate yourself for a so called offence.

    So what is being discussed is effectively a loophole. If you do not speak to the officers and ignore them and do not return to something that may identify you – e.g. your vehicle, your home, your place of work etc… then by Wrexham council and the police’s admission they cannot and will not force personal details out of people that Kingdom are pursuing. Likewise if you make it to a safe spot – Kingdom barred area such as Aldi or Eagle’s Meadow then they do not have permission to pursue you further (they can wait for you outside these places) or if you just go and sit in a cafe and order some food/drink – likewise most establishments would take a dim view of enforcement officers harassing their clientele. Then if you wait them out, as eventually they will get bored or realise the time taken to pursue an FPN fine is not worth it, based upon the fact that they have targets (and however it is being labelled) a commission structure – non-communicating and non compliant targets are not deemed worth it and they move onto the next poor sap who probably will pay up.

    These actual actions by the Kingdom operatives proves that it is not about enforcement and bringing wrongoers to task and punishing them, it’s about revenue generation ONLY. It’s discrimination and extortion to only demand payment from individuals not savvy enough to carry out the required avoidance tactics. I imagine it becomes quite comical to see angry bearded or gammon faced Kingdom Officers trying to challenge someone only for them to be completely blanked and then popping into Starbucks for a coffee and a read of a newspaper for 30 minutes – I bet it proper p*sses then off.

    The other method that seems to have been working is that members of the public have turned their own cameras on and recorded the officers – putting their actions through a fine tooth comb and funnily enough that has also made them back off and not pursue an FPN. If they were behaving with 100% transparency what would they have to fear and cause them to back down if they were being filmed going about their duties by the other party?

    I think when there are almost 10,000 people on the NWAKS (North Wales Against Kingdom Security) all adhering to the methods discussed above and openly sharing this advice with their peer groups, people making YouTube videos about this advice then surely we are talking about mass civil disobedience?

    If something becomes unenforceable to certain groups of people then that law is broken. In which case they’d have to either push through a by-law change that demands the police turn up in refusal cases (massive waste of limited resources) or drop it entirely and take a completely different approach to litter enforcement and reduction entirely.

    #148825

    Wrexham1
    Participant

    Here is the BBC Panorama documentary Inside The Litter Police, which was filmed last year. Between 14 minutes to 14 and a half minutes, you will hear the Kingdom operative admit that they pretend to call the police, in order to scare people into giving their details. As has already been mentioned previously, Wrexham police have already been overheard on the Townlink radio refusing to get involved when people refuse to give their details.

    #148839
    AMA Express
    AMA Express
    Participant
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