Groves School to Art Centre?

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  • #53934

    wxm
    Participant

    Press reports suggest public money is being sought to convert redundant Groves School into an Arts Centre. Very laudable, a principal undoubtedly we all support … but why is The Groves empty, what are we proactively doing about this, and will an Arts Centre add value to our economy in Wrexham

    We need to champion what residents will get value out of, what visitors will get value out of, and what will actually contribute to Gross Value Added?

    #59702

    thewayneinspain
    Participant
    wxm;4657 wrote:
    Press reports suggest public money is being sought to convert redundant Groves School into an Arts Centre. Very laudable, a principal undoubtedly we all support … but why is The Groves empty, what are we proactively doing about this, and will an Arts Centre add value to our economy in Wrexham

    We need to champion what residents will get value out of, what visitors will get value out of, and what will actually contribute to Gross Value Added?

    Long term, the gross value added would probably be more than the superprison as it would employ more than 15 locals if all the building was utilised.

    The fields behind should be made to help the local economy and a place were those who out of a job could grow their food with the surplus going to the food bank.

    Why is it empty? Because like a lot of wrexham council owned buildings, they can’t decide what to do with them and they won’t consult with the public about it.

    Is an art centre the best use of the property? No of course not. But there is little that can be done with it, because there is oversupply in every sector of properties in wrexham whther it being office space, education space, retail space, manufacturing space or any kind of space.

    There is of course the Maynard Keynes argument that state needs to stimulate the economy with state funded projects.. The IMF would argue this too. So looking at it, in an economics sense an art centre can help to stimulate the economy. Is it enough? No. Is it the best use of resources? No.

    #59727

    Alunh
    Participant

    Several points

    Firstly; the main difficulty with the Bromfield/Groves site is the Covenant. There are technicalities pertaining to this that make it impossible for Wrexham Council to operate a free hand here. To hand, I don’t have the precise restrictions.

    Secondly, the obvious thing for this site to be is a School. Wrexham has the sad sad reality of having schools with excess capacity because the schools have been so bad in the last 10 years (and more). The demographics of 2013 dictate that Wrexham should have several secondary schools full to capacity but even Bishop Heber in Malpas (as well as Castell Alun and Penley), the Welsh School and St Josephs are taking up the slack because petrified parents are running scared of the town.

    Thirdly, Keynes was a moron and he was a moron of his time. If anyone actually thinks that it is a good idea to relocate money from one area (possibly a tax paying profitable business) and pass it over to another on the presumption that it will provide an economic stimulus, they are reading outdated books. I can go with the idea of capital projects but not the rest

    #59754

    wxm
    Participant

    @Alunh 4660 wrote:

    Several points

    Secondly, the obvious thing for this site to be is a School. Wrexham has the sad sad reality of having schools with excess capacity because the schools have been so bad in the last 10 years (and more). The demographics of 2013 dictate that Wrexham should have several secondary schools full to capacity but even Bishop Heber in Malpas (as well as Castell Alun and Penley), the Welsh School and St Josephs are taking up the slack because petrified parents are running scared of the town.

    Sounds like education might not be in the right place either. Spending is £147m in the last accounts, with 15 people paid over £60k in education, and officers with responsibilities around education and social care. No country, community or business can afford to leave assets redundant and dilapidated, we all know like an empty house they get worse and spend money at the same time. Time for the Leader and his Executive to look at education? Another question for him? And The Groves is eight years overdue a solution?

    #59718

    zinger
    Participant

    “Secondly, the obvious thing for this site to be is a School. Wrexham has the sad sad reality of having schools with excess capacity because the schools have been so bad in the last 10 years (and more). The demographics of 2013 dictate that Wrexham should have several secondary schools full to capacity but even Bishop Heber in Malpas (as well as Castell Alun and Penley), the Welsh School and St Josephs are taking up the slack because petrified parents are running scared of the town”.
    I agree with this comment 100%. The two super schools are appalling.

    #59703

    thewayneinspain
    Participant

    its impossible to make a fair opinion unless we know what the coveants are.

    same with the 147 million for education.

    what is being spent per child?
    what are other LAs doing?
    what are splits costs for education?
    How much of that is wasted because of changes caused by Goves and those previously in the job?
    How much is being wasted on empty buildings?

    It’s very easy to knock the 147 million because its a large number but education matters and should the be one of the key roots to increase equality in society.

    #59695

    Liam
    Participant

    I believe WCBC shut the Groves believing that Yale would buy it off them.

    Seems a bit naive if they didn’t have any cast iron agreements with Yale. I think Yale were probably wise not to buy it given that they operate well enough from their existing campus.

    #59755

    wxm
    Participant

    The £147m is in the accounts. Don’t know how it’s made up, or if its all the money spent. But the commentator made their view clear on the decline of education through super-schools in the past 10 years. Whatever the truth, education is central to our social and economic fabric and success, and we need to measure it.

    #59704

    thewayneinspain
    Participant
    wxm;4682 wrote:
    The £147m is in the accounts. Don’t know how it’s made up, or if its all the money spent. But the commentator made their view clear on the decline of education through super-schools in the past 10 years. Whatever the truth, education is central to our social and economic fabric and success, and we need to measure it.

    And there lies the problem, there can’t be a debate unless there is transparency.

    But admittedly, if i had kids, I would only send them to morgan llwyd. I’ve heard good things about castell alun too…

    Public and self image is a part of this… you can see this with the relentless ‘feel good’ factor pr campaign of Glyndwr.

    #59728

    Alunh
    Participant

    @Liam 4680 wrote:

    I believe WCBC shut the Groves believing that Yale would buy it off them.

    Seems a bit naive if they didn’t have any cast iron agreements with Yale. I think Yale were probably wise not to buy it given that they operate well enough from their existing campus.

    It wasn’t that Yale were wise (or not) Liam. They were broke and at the time had to lay off a large strata of their senior management team. If you want to see how strapped for cash Yale are/were, compare the P/T A level offer available in Yale (North Wales largest town) with Llandrillo. It’s embarassing

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