Groves has cost Wrexham Council more than £1.1m

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  • #143400
    Councillor X
    Councillor X
    Participant

    A Freedom of Information request revealed the authority has spent £1,107,516 on the facility in Powell Road from 2015-16 until December 29, 2017.

    Do you think that the Difficult Decisions would have been so difficult if the do-gooders had lost their battle?

    People here have chastised me for sticking up for Top Management and Councillor parking but it is a drop in the ocean compared to this waste of money.

    A hero is someone who understands the responsibility that comes with his freedom.

    #143403

    iout
    Blocked

    If the council had have tackled this matter with a greater level of openness and transparency.If they had supported the dynamic plans tabled years ago, rather than acting like gangsters, the monies spent to day could have been better utilised. The blame for this spending lies at the door of the council, not those who campaigned and won support and listing. Additionally it would be interesting to see the proportion of the spend that went to facilitate the homeless folks over the past summer months.

    #143405

    zinger
    Participant

    I would like to see a breakdown of those costs. It was said before how much was spent on security each year but nothing ever appeared to have done to the building nor any security seen onsite.

    #143417

    Matt
    Participant

    rather than acting like gangsters

    I would suggest that this is the case, as there is a level of media censorship regarding a certain Don Corleone not being allowed to be depicted negatively anywhere for fear of retribution, even within a satirical nature. I shall expect a horses head in my bed next.

    #143418

    iout
    Blocked

    I would tend to believe this version of the spending rather than the BS posted by Councillor X,

    If you saw the headline article in yesterday’s Leader, you’ll know it’s totally incorrect.

    Firstly, Wrexham Council have not spent £1.1 million on the school since 2015. That’s just nonsense.

    In fact, they’ve not spent more than £538K on it since 2010, and that includes hundreds of thousands on demolition and asbestos removal, gas and electric, legal fees etc.

    The Council publishes all its payments over £500 every quarter. They are available for anyone to view.

    Even collating all payments made since April 2010 relating to the school, does not come close to £1.1 million. The bulk of the costs were for carrying out what the Council wanted to do anyway, which was knock down the newer building.

    Unfortunately the reporter at The Leader failed to carry out any basic fact checking before publishing the story. Hence once again, we’re facing the £1 million lie. It does rather feel like we’re going round in circles.

    For those wanting the real truth, I urge you to read ALL the facts at http://www.soh.wales .

    Here you can download a spreadsheet with the full list of payments made to date. See for yourself, then decide if The Leader reported accurately and honestly.

    #143419

    Matt
    Participant

    A Freedom of Information request revealed the authority has spent £1,107,516 on the facility in Powell Road from 2015-16 until December 29, 2017.

    Do you think that the Difficult Decisions would have been so difficult if the do-gooders had lost their battle?

    Would we have a leisure centre up in Plas Madoc still if the “do-gooders” had lost their battle there? That place is thriving now and the local community has seen its facilities protected for the foreseeable future. The Council leadership made a grave error there, which proves they do make mistakes. The Groves issue is still on-going, there were never any concrete plans to completely regenerate that site that satisfied knocking down of the building. It was entirely leadership’s decision to go in for an expensive legal fight and clearly their lawyers weren’t good enough or the legal case for the decision wasn’t strong enough for them to carry out their plans. The will of a large number of people in Wrexham (see Brexit division / decisions based on populism), the rule of law and the will of the Elected Assembly of the people all dictated that the Groves building should stand and remain in use as a building of education.

    The council are choosing to waste money by refusing to develop the site and therefore running up costs associated with “mothballing it” or choosing to allow homeless people to set-up camps there. They are also depriving children of an educational location when it has been identified that there are a shortage of schools in the area.

    To suggest that the current level of austerity problems and cuts across the County of Wrexham all stem down to a group of individuals campaigning for the protection of a building that they deem historic is far fetched by anyone’s measure. It would be the highest level of concern if we thought that the actions of members of the public to generate petitions and hang a few ribbons on a fence is enough to unnerve 10 “paid for their seniority and ability to make county level decisions” Executive Board members and stunt their ability to run the town and county they were elected to do so. That would be an embarrassing state of affairs and would suggest they resign from their posts and give another 10 councillors a chance to do a better job and if no-one else was capable we’d have to resort to a merger with Flintshire.

    At no point is anything suggesting a level of competency or confidence that they can carry out anything effectively. I’d be the first to say they can keep their free parking if I felt for a second that they deserved any perks. This is the trouble with this day and age – if you get put in a position of authority, either employed or elected there is an automatic false assumption that because you were able to reach that position, you are actually qualified to do a good job and deserve all the rewards, merits and remuneration that come with that position. Then there is an automatic section of cheerleaders who will defend that position on principle and anyone who dares challenge the establishment face constant rebuke. It’s quite simply not good enough anymore for people to muddle through at playing Councillors at the expense of the general public.

    Councillor X, I greatly respect your opinions as there are some great debates generated as a result of all the differing views that are written on this forum. However, you must see that on some level the current elected council badly needs to take some action to improve its image with the public. I’m talking about serious listening and not just papering over the cracks or PR stunts, but a genuine engagement. In my books, as the council is currently independent-led then they have no national party guidance in terms of governing how they should approach running the town. The whole essence of independents (or at least what they claim when wanting to get elected) is that they are supposed to directly represent the people’s interests and are not burdened by party politics. So they should stand firm on that principle and start acting within those interests for the people that elected them.

    #143428

    DEREK FISHER
    Participant

    In Reference to councillor X I think you have hit the nail on the head, if it wasn’t for the intervention of Plaid Cymru with their campaign boards and the assembly elections this building wouldn’t have been listed every single tax payer in wrexham including myself are now paying for the upkeep of that building which should have been demolished.it’s disgraceful this has happend plaid Cymru you should be ashamed of yourselves, you bang the drum and sing the tune about saving money, but look what it’s cost us now No savings at all just bills.

    #143430

    The Monitor
    Participant

    Derek Fisher, It was Not Plaid Cymru who instigated the saving of the former Groves and Grove Park Girls Grammar School. Rather it was a group of people who were and are concerned at the disappearing heritage of Wrexham and area. That group of people are now known as SOH or Save OUR Heritage. They have many many supporters in the Wrexham area. They are people who know more than a little about History, Architecture, and Worth, unlike some folk. As for the Listing… I put the request in for the Building to be Listed on their behalf. I too know more than a little about the history of Wrexham, the Worth of Buildings and especially in this case, the history, heritage, architectural worth, and past individuals involved in the building, the teaching and the actual construction of the School. I could say more, but do not intend writing a book here, nor will I get into fractious arguements with those who have no knowledge of the historic worth, and the architectural worth of that building.

    The figure of £1.1 million spent since 2015 is a lie .. a total lie. As for Asbestos, do you realise that before a building can be demolished any asbestos has to be removed from it. That, is LAW. This present arguement is a futile attempt by a Council Exec board who are not worth their salt.

    #143440

    iout
    Blocked

    Forget the million plus figure being thrown around,
    They’ve not spent more than £538K on it since 2010, and that includes hundreds of thousands on demolition and asbestos removal, gas and electric, legal fees etc. oh and £35.72 on Security ….

    #143474

    Andrewmackembailey
    Participant

    Forget the million plus figure being thrown around,
    They’ve not spent more than £538K on it since 2010, and that includes hundreds of thousands on demolition and asbestos removal, gas and electric, legal fees etc. oh and £35.72 on Security ….

    Derek Fisher, It was Not Plaid Cymru who instigated the saving of the former Groves and Grove Park Girls Grammar School. Rather it was a group of people who were and are concerned at the disappearing heritage of Wrexham and area. That group of people are now known as SOH or Save OUR Heritage. They have many many supporters in the Wrexham area. They are people who know more than a little about History, Architecture, and Worth, unlike some folk. As for the Listing… I put the request in for the Building to be Listed on their behalf. I too know more than a little about the history of Wrexham, the Worth of Buildings and especially in this case, the history, heritage, architectural worth, and past individuals involved in the building, the teaching and the actual construction of the School. I could say more, but do not intend writing a book here, nor will I get into fractious arguements with those who have no knowledge of the historic worth, and the architectural worth of that building.

    The figure of £1.1 million spent since 2015 is a lie .. a total lie. As for Asbestos, do you realise that before a building can be demolished any asbestos has to be removed from it. That, is LAW. This present arguement is a futile attempt by a Council Exec board who are not worth their salt.

    As you say Monitor it was SOH ( an apolitical group) that fought for the heritage and I am aware of a number of politicians – apart from the present Tory-Independent-Independent cabal – both Labour and Plaid who stopped the demolition.. incidentally there were plans being developed by the minority Labour administration 2012- 2014 ( September) to use these buildings productively for education but literally weeks after 10 councillors found their “ Independence these were shelved – hidden agendas were developed and the council ( in my opinion) wasted both time and money on a failed strategy of challenge!

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