E.U Elections….who will you vote for?

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  • #168746

    Matt
    Participant

    What’s going to happen next is panning out to be very interesting:

    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/eus-juncker-says-eu-not-154652096.html

    Juncker has reiterated that for any new incoming PM the EU WILL NOT be reopening negotiations. So that means that Johnson, Gove, Raab etc… or whomever gets selected as next Tory PM will be hamstrung by the same issues as May.

    They’ll have:
    i) a dead deal that can’t pass through parliament,
    ii) No deal that doesn’t have a parliamentary majority and
    iii) a people’s vote option that also doesn’t have a parliamentary majority.

    This can only mean 1 thing – calling a General Election to change the numbers in parliament to get either No Deal or a People’s Vote an overall majority in Parliament to be enacted.

    There’s just 1 problem here – as it stands the Tories face electoral annihilation if they go to the Polls right now. Could you see someone like Johnson wanting to give up the Premiership so quickly? With that in mind Brexit is probably going to be delayed beyond May 2022 after the next compulsory General Election as they will find some clever way to further procrastinate proceedings – perhaps new talks with other parties, other meaningless meaningful votes etc…

    #168779

    TimRegency
    Participant

    Unless a new extension is agreed with the EU, we’ll be leaving by automatic operation of law on 31st October, regardless of whether we get a deal or not. So the Tories can’t just keep delaying.

    #168781

    bubble
    Participant

    And they need to get all this sorted whilst still benefiting from Parliament’s summer recess. Or will they volunteer to give that up this year? I feel stupid even asking that question.

    #168782

    dagg
    Participant

    [quote quote=168781]And they need to get all this sorted whilst still benefiting from Parliament’s summer recess. Or will they volunteer to give that up this year? I feel stupid even asking that question.[/quote]

    Didn’t they moan about the Easter break.

    #168787

    IMHO
    Participant

    What is a “people’s vote” when it isn’t just another referendum? It’s a trick the voters who didn’t get their own way in the first referendum are using in an attempt to disguise the true meaning which is, of course, “we want a re-run of the 2016 referendum because we didn’t like the result of that one and want to try to overturn it”. It’s akin to calling “speed cameras” “safety cameras” in an attempt to make them seem more acceptable when, at the end of the day “speed cameras” describe them well enough. I would go along with another referendum if it did not include the remain option instead, asking whether we leave with the current deal or no deal as whether we actually leave or not was decided in 2016. To the remain voters saying we were hoodwinked into a leave vote in 2016 by lies i would say, we are lied to at every general election in one way or another as whichever party gets in does not ever carry out what it says it will in it’s manifesto so, where are the demands for re-runs then? No, it’s all just very sad that we are slowly being pushed towards an attempt to overturn a democratic vote to leave the EU which has happened to just about every vote any EU member country has taken that the EU hasn’t liked where it has been either re-run and overturned or just ignored/worked round. Not a good record for what is touted as a democratic organisation.

    #168790

    Matt
    Participant

    [quote quote=168779]Unless a new extension is agreed with the EU, we’ll be leaving by automatic operation of law on 31st October, regardless of whether we get a deal or not. So the Tories can’t just keep delaying.[/quote]

    Juncker has already signalled that they are expecting the UK to ask for another extension in October and 1 will be granted. There will be almost indefinite numbers of extensions granted – you have to think of the EU as the Hotel California – “You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave”.

    Also, don’t believe a word Boris Johnson says about promising a hard Brexit – the man himself was a former self professed Europhile, his father Stanley is a Europhile, sister Rachel Johnson – stood for election as a remain candidate, brother Jo Johnson – also a remainer.

    It would do very well with BoJo to stay in cahoots with the EU to delay Brexit indefinitely to give him a taste of power.

    You also have to wonder just how hard Theresa May tried to push through a workable Brexit after campaigning fiercely for Remain and now she’s quit as PM she’s getting praise heaped on her by her so-called former EU Adversaries and they are acting like best of friends. It’s almost as if it’s job well done for being a proverbial spanner in the works for 3 years when she’s finally replaced in mid July.

    Which then leads us conveniently to Parliament’s Summer Recess which starts at the end of July to early September. They then spend a couple of weeks in Parliament before going on Conference Recess from Mid September until Early October. Literally leaving no time to deal with Brexit before the 31st October. Hence extension definitely on the cards. Oh and Bercow is now staying on to make sure there’s no possible way to try and force through a No Deal Brexit through Parliament before then (there also isn’t the numbers of MPs to get it through with a majority anyway).

    #168791

    Matt
    Participant

    [quote quote=168787]What is a “people’s vote” when it isn’t just another referendum? It’s a trick the voters who didn’t get their own way in the first referendum are using in an attempt to disguise the true meaning which is, of course, “we want a re-run of the 2016 referendum because we didn’t like the result of that one and want to try to overturn it”. It’s akin to calling “speed cameras” “safety cameras” in an attempt to make them seem more acceptable when, at the end of the day “speed cameras” describe them well enough. I would go along with another referendum if it did not include the remain option instead, asking whether we leave with the current deal or no deal as whether we actually leave or not was decided in 2016. To the remain voters saying we were hoodwinked into a leave vote in 2016 by lies i would say, we are lied to at every general election in one way or another as whichever party gets in does not ever carry out what it says it will in it’s manifesto so, where are the demands for re-runs then? No, it’s all just very sad that we are slowly being pushed towards an attempt to overturn a democratic vote to leave the EU which has happened to just about every vote any EU member country has taken that the EU hasn’t liked where it has been either re-run and overturned or just ignored/worked round. Not a good record for what is touted as a democratic organisation.[/quote]

    IMHO you are onto it, it’s all being very carefully stage managed from both within the UK and the EU. Even the Brexit Party and their supporters are being carefully managed – those who were previously angry and threatening to kick off on the streets have now been mollified by the charade that is the EU elections and their Brexit party representatives being given democratic seats with little more meaning than being ringside at the circus – the EU has years of experience of “accommodating” right wing parties who want to leave the EU from various countries.

    Once the Conservative members select someone who on the surface appears to be hardline Brexit to be PM, the Conservative vote will get a recovery and will end up eating into the momentum the Brexit party has received thus splitting the LEAVE vote on the Right and diluting their influence.

    #168792

    Matt
    Participant

    In fact they are absolutely loving the whole Brexit Impasse over in Europe

    Britain’s Brexit paralysis served as a “vaccine” against the Eurosceptic vote in the EU parliamentary elections, said European Council President Donald Tusk.

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/eu-council-president-donald-tusk-calls-brexit-paralysis-a-vaccine-against-eurosceptic-vote-in-eu-a4153421.html

    #168798

    Wrexham ITK
    Participant

    [quote quote=168746]What’s going to happen next is panning out to be very interesting:

    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/eus-juncker-says-eu-not-154652096.html

    Juncker has reiterated that for any new incoming PM the EU WILL NOT be reopening negotiations. So that means that Johnson, Gove, Raab etc… or whomever gets selected as next Tory PM will be hamstrung by the same issues as May.

    They’ll have:
    i) a dead deal that can’t pass through parliament,
    ii) No deal that doesn’t have a parliamentary majority and
    iii) a people’s vote option that also doesn’t have a parliamentary majority.

    This can only mean 1 thing – calling a General Election to change the numbers in parliament to get either No Deal or a People’s Vote an overall majority in Parliament to be enacted.

    There’s just 1 problem here – as it stands the Tories face electoral annihilation if they go to the Polls right now. Could you see someone like Johnson wanting to give up the Premiership so quickly? With that in mind Brexit is probably going to be delayed beyond May 2022 after the next compulsory General Election as they will find some clever way to further procrastinate proceedings – perhaps new talks with other parties, other meaningless meaningful votes etc…[/quote]

    Yep, good summary. As you say, the Tories will do anything they can to cling onto power, that’s their number one priority, so they won’t want to hold a General Election if they can avoid it.

    The other problem is, if there is a GE before we Brexit, Farage’s party will win it easily as most people in favour of “leave” will vote for it whereas the “remain” voters will largely vote based on normal politics so their vote will be split, similar to the European elections just gone.

    #168800

    IMHO
    Participant

    [quote quote=168792]In fact they are absolutely loving the whole Brexit Impasse over in Europe

    Britain’s Brexit paralysis served as a “vaccine” against the Eurosceptic vote in the EU parliamentary elections, said European Council President Donald Tusk.

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/eu-council-president-donald-tusk-calls-brexit-paralysis-a-vaccine-against-eurosceptic-vote-in-eu-a4153421.html[/quote]

    They would seek to put a pro europe positive spin on any result proving that they are not listening to the people who are crying out for them to stop, look and listen to the grievances that normal people have about the direction the EU is going and just say, “they are all in favour of the EU so, full steam ahead for more of it”! Politicians are absolutely not the right people to have power over other people as they abuse that power constantly and are always convinced they are right.

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