Attorney General tells Lucas (the Gonner) the way it is

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  • #174818

    Matt
    Participant

    Prmaiarly cause my taid fought in WW2 to give us the freedom

    I think you need to examine the roles of the UK – in that respect – we already had the freedom – a large number of commonwealth nations leading up to World War II did not have freedom and independence from us.

    You only need to look at India, Pakistan, Jordan, Sri Lanka and Israel who all became free from British rule post World War 2. We were the Empire builders that Hitler looked upon in great envy (I’m not equivalating – but we were not without flaws). We have gradually tried to move past our legacy of conquest and blood, just like Germany is now doing so.

    Nowhere in the UK became occupied, so subsequently didn’t need to be freed – the 2 bailiwicks of Jersey and Guernsey became occupied but they are technically part of the British Isles.

    The very idea that British media through rose tinted glasses likes to paint UK as the underdogs is absurd. Yes, it was a justified defensive move to fight the Nazis but also it was a War that had significant consequences to our allies across Europe – whom we went to help liberate and British people went and fought and gave their lives so that all of Europe might be free of fascist oppression.

    The Germany in the EU now is a completely different kettle of fish to the Nazi-fronted Germany of the past and 99.99% of them are absolutely appalled by their country’s past – which is why they are part of the EU alongside a number of other European countries so that we do not end up in a warlike state on the continent again.

    The 1975 EU referendum was put in place to ensure that the people of the UK – 30 years after World War 2 were still committed and close to our neighbours and allies across Europe. What is so wrong about cooperation and peace rather than closed borders.

    Yes, you can turn round and say that it feels like the EU is now becoming more and more oppressive, that’s a matter for discussion and debate, but nobody has rolled tanks in straight past the Maginot line and taken France on this occasion and there’s no bombers in the sky.

    Surely if you want to keep the EU in check and prevent them from creating an United States of Europe which shanghais our laws, currency and culture entirely – then the best place to do so is surely from within the EU itself? The UK already has one of the best levels of opt out on everything because it is a powerful influential country (within the lattice of the EU) – no obligation to join the Euro, no obligation to join the Shengen.

    Sitting out on the sidelines seems like a bad idea, you can already see how much pressure the EU applies to the likes of Switzerland, Turkey (only 3% of the country is in Europe!) and the 3 European Economic Area countries. The EU 27 controls the waters, the skies, the borders – it has the continent wrapped up. If the UK leaves now on a no deal then to carry out any future trading relationship with our closest trading partners will be on their terms – that’s 27 countries vs one vastly diminished UK – there’s no room for bombastic chest puffing – we’re a strongly placed and well economically based island nation, but an empire we are no longer.

    If we keep our seat at the table we can continue to say what’s acceptable, what’s unacceptable – France are the main ones loving that the UK is on the way out because it can flex more now because we were the ones to keep them in check.

    I understand there are concerns over other issues like immigration, but you only need to look at the likes of Hungary whom are in the Schengen but have put in their own domestic anti-immigration laws and the EU hasn’t even bat an eyelid.

    #174819

    Thor
    Participant

    I copied your entire thread.

    No we were not Invaded but we could have been

    Hitlar had a better air force the spitfire Hurricane were whipppets and their agility that made them unique.

    The Ships were bigger with Hitler Bismark should have battered the Navy

    And D day was postponed cause of bad weather. Again Churhill arranged for decoys to be placed.

    We won that war.

    The EU is Not a Country its a collection of countries within a Continent.

    As for Re Negitioan that is what the leader of VOTE remain said
    Was he lying ( after all remain dont or didnt lie they)

    I did say one reason

    Another is our Laws which are superceeded by EU law.

    Nowt we can do if a law is passed in EU Parliment due to European Communites act.

    We pay in more than we get back from the EU.

    We were also Promised a Refuredum by Labour and they lied too

    #174820

    Thor
    Participant

    How did you think leaving would actually work? In its simplest form, leaving is like a divorce. There has to be negotiation, call it what you will.

    The ” divorce ” is a farce
    We pay Monthly to Eu and as such 2 years payment is holding it lawfully
    What is the divorce for?

    Projects planned by Eu

    So any projects planned by Eu after UK has left will be honoured ? no not a chance and rightly so they would be moved

    The payment is cause we are 2nd highest payee into their budget and they would have a massive budget hole intheir budget.

    Now if the UK wishes to make a payment as a gesture to our friends to aid them great but its not for planned projects

    As for re negotiation Cameron said NO he was leader of Vote Remain who had already Negotiated a Deal and took that to the Public the Defacto is Deal (which would be the new one agreed ) or No Deal

    Any negotiaons could have been about Trade and we could offer that as carrot

    Article 50 doesnt say anyone has to pay other than 2 years from Article 50 being triggered

    #174824

    Matt
    Participant

    One quick interjection – does everyone remember the good old days of pre-2016 Referendum where everyone and their brother’s dog didn’t need to be both EU law and British constitutional law experts to take part in a day to day conversation either online or with family members?

    I miss rambling about the weather.

    #174825

    TimRegency
    Participant

    Another is our Laws which are superceeded by EU law.

    Nowt we can do if a law is passed in EU Parliment due to European Communites act.

    Well, our UK Parliament passed this Act. In other words, the only reason we have primacy of EU law is because we agreed to it. This means that we still make our own laws, as Parliamentary Sovereignty remains very much intact.

    Secondly, we have only agreed to the primacy of EU law when it conflicts with our laws, so we are still free to make our own laws, which we do all the time in our UK Parliament.

    #174826

    TimRegency
    Participant

    One quick interjection – does everyone remember the good old days of pre-2016 Referendum where everyone and their brother’s dog didn’t need to be both EU law and British constitutional law experts to take part in a day to day conversation either online or with family members?

    I miss rambling about the weather.

    The Daily Express guide to EU law has a lot to answer for.

    #174855

    Thor
    Participant

    Secondly, we have only agreed to the primacy of EU law when it conflicts with our laws, so we are still free to make our own laws, which we do all the time in our UK Parliament.

    When it conflicts with ours?

    So a Law saying No deal is to be removed by our parlimemt. Doesnt conflict with a Treaty encompassing a Country leaving the EU ( Suggest you actually take time to read the European Communities act ( 1972) and the Treaty of the European Union.

    The first will better educate you on our laws and how EU laws made in European Parliment have to be adapted here. (There are caveats where we can make our own ) buy ECJ has supreme juristiction over every member state

    Then read the treary of the EU and see what Arricle 50 does ans what ir can do.

    According to Remain voters. Leave voters did no research

    But then i supposed as Sunday Sport reader you wouldnt really know the difference

    #174856

    Thor
    Participant

    Well, our UK Parliament passed this Act. In other words, the only reason we have primacy of EU law is because we agreed to it. This means that we still make our own laws, as Parliamentary Sovereignty remains very much intact.

    Secondly, we have only agreed to the primacy of EU law when it conflicts with our laws, so we are still free to make our own laws, which we do all the time in our UK Parliament.

    The 1972 European Communities Act was the piece of legislation that brought the UK into the Europe Union: it gives EU law supremacy over UK national law.
    A large amount of EU law effective in the UK currently relies on the 1972 Act

    https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/1972-european-communities-act

    Thought I’d help you incase you were struggling. Its fine to disgree and yes before 2016 although many were not happy about EU law and its supremecy

    They could do nothing about it.

    Plodding along agreeing to laws and adpating in our own Acts.

    After the ref yes people started checking ( yes you know what that is)

    You may like that EU law superceeds ours. I don,t

    #174857

    TimRegency
    Participant

    You didn’t really understand either of my points, sorry.

    The fact that WE passed that Act and that WE are planning to repeal it means that WE have always been able to make OUR laws.

    The EU only has the supremacy over our laws that was permitted by us. You may not like that we did that, but we were always in control.

    And actually, I have no problem with rules that care about people’s health and safety, food standards, the environment and things like that. The EU don’t make laws to wind us up, but for our mutual benefit. We were known as ‘the dirty man of Europe’ in the not so distant past and even Blackpool beach was heavily polluted. And it is quite clear to me that controls on pollution, the environment, food standards are a good thing, especially now.

    I don’t like this silly law about consenting to cookies every time you visit a website, but there are always laws we don’t like and at least we had a place at the table to negotiate. We don’t now.

    #174872

    Thor
    Participant

    The fact that WE passed that Act and that WE are planning to repeal it means that WE have always been able to make OUR laws.

    Yes i completly understood.

    YOU may not like the EU laws sone are fine sone not

    The European Communties Act and Act qe passed in 192 meant EU Law does have supermeny ( in areqs ) over ours

    So a Treaty which was AGREED by every EU nation including ours would have supremcet over a Single act to stop it.

    Yes Parliemt can pass the Act and say We command you to sign off an Extension.

    Rememebwr Article 50 states in LAW that Every Nation in the EU has to agree

    So if they dont whos law is Superiour

    Ours or theirs

    Also Article 50 you dont hqve to ask for a Deadline yes Parliment can Make an Act ( a Law ) so if the PM decied hey you know what ill just let Article 50 run its course.

    He isnt breaking the law.
    Cause The Treaty allows for it

    It would be a Poor show if he didnt but if he didnt hey ho.

    You wentioned i think WTD.

    Well why dont we go on to EU standard Holidays ( wtd) and as EU is so good make it a Min wage same in Every country ( allowing fir ERM )

    Our Workers rights far outweight the EU and thats mostly thanks to unions nowt to Do with EU

    There are stupid laws yes we also have Stupidaws

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