Attorney General tells Lucas (the Gonner) the way it is

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  • #174785

    Matt
    Participant

    That speech is by snake oil salesman David Cameron who f*cked off as soon as his con artistry failed. Those words aren’t even worth the carbon dioxide molecules exhaled as he uttered them.

    Herein lies the problem. If it was a once in a generation vote he should have put the binding legislation in place so that the referendum held such validity. Not something flimsy and divisive that people would spend the next 3+ years failing to implement and trying to overturn.

    It was a sham referendum & all leave voters have been sold up the river by the Tories & their Eton Boys Games. Boris just being the latest in place to bugger you all about.

    #174786

    MP1953
    Participant

    Exactly Thor, and that’s why Ian Lucas may have the unenviable position of possibly loosing a seat in Wrexham that has been Labour for over eighty years, unless the likes of my Great Grandmother can be resurrected :)

    The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is.

    #174790

    TimRegency
    Participant

    That is a matter of judgment.

    And ultimately it will be the judgment of the British people in the referendum that I promised and that I will deliver.

    You will have to judge what is best for you and your family, for your children and grandchildren, for our country, for our future.

    It will be your decision whether to remain in the EU on the basis of the reforms we secure, or whether we leave.

    Your decision.

    Nobody else’s.

    Not politicians’.

    Not Parliament’s.

    Not lobby groups’.

    Not mine.

    Just you.

    You, the British people, will decide.

    At that moment, you will hold this country’s destiny in your hands.

    This is a huge decision for our country, perhaps the biggest we will make in our lifetimes.

    And it will be the final decision.

    So to those who suggest that a decision in the referendum to leave…

    …would merely produce another stronger renegotiation and then a second referendum in which Britain would stay…

    …I say think again.

    The renegotiation is happening right now. And the referendum that follows will be a once in a generation choice.

    An in or out referendum.

    When the British people speak, their voice will be respected – not ignored.

    If we vote to leave, then we will leave.

    There will not be another renegotiation and another referendum.

    So I say to my European counterparts with whom I am negotiating.

    This is our only chance to get this right – for Britain and for the whole European Union.

    I say to those who are thinking about voting to leave.

    Think very carefully, because this choice cannot be undone.

    Which part did it say we will have a 2nd go.
    Which part said there would be Soft or Hard breixt.

    The deal was the one in 2016

    We knew what we voted for. We listend.

    Remain didn’t.

    Like I said before, take the faulty brexit product back to the shop you bought it from. The shop called ‘The Conservative party led by David Cameron.’

    Their referendum, their result, their obligation to to implement it.

    It is literally impossible to just say ‘ta ra, we’re off.’ Cameron and May knew this – why do you think the first ran off straight after the result like a turbo charged weasel and the second tried to alchemise a weird deal? The EU is umbrella to over 750 trade agreements which you cannot just leave without putting something in their place. There are multifarious existing business and social links that cannot just stop on some deadline.

    Cameron may as well have promised to retrieve the eggs from a baked cake that’s already been eaten.

    • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 6 days ago by  TimRegency. Reason: Sp
    #174807

    Anonymous

    Exactly Thor, and that’s why Ian Lucas may have the unenviable position of possibly loosing a seat in Wrexham that has been Labour for over eighty years, unless the likes of my Great Grandmother can be resurrected :)

    Are Wrexhamites daft enough to vote in Tories though? The ones responsible for this mess in the first place and the ones underfunding across the board to run our NHS into the ground as well as other innumerable problems?
    The alternative is the Brexit party. Who have one policy. You’ve all seen the candidates. Mouth-breathers who you wouldn’t trust to serve gravy in a school canteen. That’s who you want in charge of your taxes, waste collection, public transport etc…?

    “Can we have extra bus services to the industrial estate?” “*SNORT* Brexit means Brexit!”
    “We require some planning permission to extend the hight of our garden fence” “It’s the fault of the EU!”

    Surely the majority of voters in Wrexham aren’t stupid enough to vote either of them in? Sadly, I think it might actually happen. People have been taken in by ‘man of the people’ Farage (“He’s just like us, he has a beer and a fag!”) and his lies. Daily Mail and Express readers that are told what to think and shout angrily when challenged.
    I’ve seen it all right here on this forum.

    And still not one answer to Matt’s question: “WHY DO YOU WANT TO LEAVE THE EU SO BADLY?”

    #174810

    MP1953
    Participant

    Exactly Thor, and that’s why Ian Lucas may have the unenviable position of possibly loosing a seat in Wrexham that has been Labour for over eighty years, unless the likes of my Great Grandmother can be resurrected :)

    Are Wrexhamites daft enough to vote in Tories though? The ones responsible for this mess in the first place and the ones underfunding across the board to run our NHS into the ground as well as other innumerable problems?
    The alternative is the Brexit party. Who have one policy. You’ve all seen the candidates. Mouth-breathers who you wouldn’t trust to serve gravy in a school canteen. That’s who you want in charge of your taxes, waste collection, public transport etc…?

    “Can we have extra bus services to the industrial estate?” “*SNORT* Brexit means Brexit!”
    “We require some planning permission to extend the hight of our garden fence” “It’s the fault of the EU!”

    Surely the majority of voters in Wrexham aren’t stupid enough to vote either of them in? Sadly, I think it might actually happen. People have been taken in by ‘man of the people’ Farage (“He’s just like us, he has a beer and a fag!”) and his lies. Daily Mail and Express readers that are told what to think and shout angrily when challenged.
    I’ve seen it all right here on this forum.

    And still not one answer to Matt’s question: “WHY DO YOU WANT TO LEAVE THE EU SO BADLY?”

    I have to take issue with you calling people who have a certain view stupid and daft, this is where the likes of these forums and social media end up going, you should be able to put your point of view without insults..

    For the record I would never ever vote tory, but not Labour any more (or should I say at the moment) a lot of my many life time friends and colleagues feel the same… I and many others are probably politically in the wilderness at the moment.

    As regards to wanting to leave the EU there are many reasons, sovereignty is probably one of the highest for me, because in my opinion it is definitely going towards a United States of Europe, although I think the project will have a major spoke put in it assuming the UK does eventually leave which is why the EU are desperate for the UK not to leave.

    The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is.

    #174812

    Anonymous

    Funny, I say ‘stupid’ or ‘daft’ and I get called out on it, but where were you when I was being called a ‘bedwetter’ for fighting my corner It’s the sort of hypocrisy I can expect on here. What I should have said that IN MY VIEW, these people are idiots. And I stand by that. If you vote for yourself, your family and friends and other people to be worse off for no reason at all, then you are stupid, there’s no two ways about it. And that is what is happening. Studies have shown that “Compared with remain voters, leave voters displayed significantly lower levels of numeracy and appeared more reliant on impulsive thinking,” You can see this reflected in the Brexit result, poorer, less educated areas voted more to leave. Sorry if that’s ‘offensive’, but it’s science.

    Note that I didn’t say you, specifically. At least you can use a keyboard and we can engage in conversation, unlike some people on here.

    So you want Brexit done yet won’t vote Tory? I wonder who you are going to put your cross next to? The party of one policy, perhaps? Will you then complain when the town falls apart (even more so) because the inmates have overtaken the asylum and you have dramatically underqualified people in place that only want Brexit and don’t understand the complexities of actually running a council?

    Don’t get me wrong, I have no idea how I’ll vote yet. None of the parties are an obvious choice and I don’t like much of what I hear. I don’t think Corbyn is strong enough to run a country, he can’t even get his own party in order. I’m not massively left and I’m no extremist. The next election will require some actual thought, though it seems like it’s going to be run on that single issue, sadly, which means a hung parliament.

    Sovereignty? Please explain. You want us to be able to make our own laws? We can. And we can do it much better with a voice in the EU. Countries have to jump through hoops to join it, why would they bother if it wasn’t actually worth it? If you think we can’t make our own laws at the moment, you’re wrong. As proven by the current goings-on in court re. prorogation and the like. But that wasn’t good enough for many leave voters, because they didn’t get their way (irony lost on them though).

    We’re polls apart on this, I can see that. A United States of Europe sounds pretty good to me. Why not? Shared resources, a melting pot of cultures to rival the whole world, shared security, shared scientific advances, we’d be an integral part of a new world. You’d rather have us scrapping away without help, without enough resources, fighting like scrappy doo against the upcoming might of China and Russia. It’s naive to think that we would fare better than we do now. I can’t believe that so many people have swallowed that lie, although if it is force-fed to suggestible people by a media owned by rich tycoons with plenty to lose, I can see how people are persuaded.

    I’d even be happy taking the Euro. Ooof, controversial. But why not, again? It’s worth basically the same as a quid now anyway, the only difference is the colourful picture on the front, of an archaic old monarch who represents a class system from a previous century. That life of privilege is not mine, not any of ours here in a poor town, I’d suggest. Plus, we wouldn’t have to change our money at an exchange and get ripped off every time we went on holiday to Europe, my destination of choice.

    I’m putting on my psychology hat here.

    I think the main difference is, my generation are forward-thinking. We’re not harking back to those ‘good old days’ because we have never experienced them. You’re afraid of the future and what it could hold so you want to go back to where you felt safe, I get that. Making a better, inclusive future is going to be hard work, but it would go much easier if we didn’t have people deliberately trying to stop progress.

    I fully expect to be ignored or insulted here so feel free. I’d prefer an actual conversation though.

    #174813

    TimRegency
    Participant

    Exactly Thor, and that’s why Ian Lucas may have the unenviable position of possibly loosing a seat in Wrexham that has been Labour for over eighty years, unless the likes of my Great Grandmother can be resurrected :)

    Are Wrexhamites daft enough to vote in Tories though? The ones responsible for this mess in the first place and the ones underfunding across the board to run our NHS into the ground as well as other innumerable problems?
    The alternative is the Brexit party. Who have one policy. You’ve all seen the candidates. Mouth-breathers who you wouldn’t trust to serve gravy in a school canteen. That’s who you want in charge of your taxes, waste collection, public transport etc…?

    “Can we have extra bus services to the industrial estate?” “*SNORT* Brexit means Brexit!”
    “We require some planning permission to extend the hight of our garden fence” “It’s the fault of the EU!”

    Surely the majority of voters in Wrexham aren’t stupid enough to vote either of them in? Sadly, I think it might actually happen. People have been taken in by ‘man of the people’ Farage (“He’s just like us, he has a beer and a fag!”) and his lies. Daily Mail and Express readers that are told what to think and shout angrily when challenged.
    I’ve seen it all right here on this forum.

    And still not one answer to Matt’s question: “WHY DO YOU WANT TO LEAVE THE EU SO BADLY?”

    I can’t fault that too much, but Wrexham has been smart enough not to let a Tory in so far.

    The 2017 General Election proved that the majority of Wrexham Labour voters do not brainlessly parrot the rubbish in the Daily Mail, Express, Sun and Telegraph about how Corbyn is supposed to be an unelectable hard left Marxist. Not all Labour voters let Rupert Murdoch do their thinking for them.

    But yes, it’s quite worrying how many people seem to have been tricked into despising the EU by their copy of the Daily Express. They invoke dubious ‘reasons’ to leave while overlooking a wealth of benefits. 30% of our food comes from the EU on a ‘just in time’ basis, as well as important medicines, goods, parts and services. We’re taking a machine gun to our foot.

    #174814

    TimRegency
    Participant

    Re: sovereignty.

    Are you referring to British sovereignty? Parliamentary Sovereignty in particular?

    The very same Parliamentary Sovereignty that Boris Johnson just tried to unlawfully suspend in order to crash us out of Europe? That sovereignty?

    #174816

    Thor
    Participant

    Exactly Thor, and that’s why Ian Lucas may have the unenviable position of possibly loosing a seat in Wrexham that has been Labour for over eighty years, unless the likes of my Great Grandmother can be resurrected :

    Yes it was part of the Speech of Mr Cameron who was the Leader of Vote remain

    He ran away cause he thought the Big Smoke would be fine it would outvote the rest ( some cities would ome on baord and Remain would romp home )

    Within there are parts remain voters say
    Leave didnt know what we voting for ?
    Yes we did

    Leave werent voting for Hard or Soft Brexit no they were voting to leave
    Hard and Soft Brexit are Remain made up words

    I choose Leave for number of reasonn

    Prmaiarly cause my taid fought in WW2 to give us the freedom

    Soneone mentioed johnson shutting parliment

    He can do that and also he can leave Oct 31 if he chooses and not break any laws

    As EU law Superceeds UK law.

    And Treaty of the EU of which Article 50 forms a Part of trumps An act of parliment ( European Communities act 1974)
    It shouldnt but it does

    So Boris wouldnt be breaking any laws if he left Oct31

    If that was overturned by out Courts there would be 100s of cases that had Eu Law attached which would need Voiding.

    #174817

    MargaretA
    Participant

    Exactly Thor, and that’s why Ian Lucas may have the unenviable position of possibly loosing a seat in Wrexham that has been Labour for over eighty years, unless the likes of my Great Grandmother can be resurrected :

    Yes it was part of the Speech of Mr Cameron who was the Leader of Vote remain

    He ran away cause he thought the Big Smoke would be fine it would outvote the rest ( some cities would ome on baord and Remain would romp home )

    Within there are parts remain voters say
    Leave didnt know what we voting for ?
    Yes we did

    Leave werent voting for Hard or Soft Brexit no they were voting to leave
    Hard and Soft Brexit are Remain made up words

    I choose Leave for number of reasonn

    Prmaiarly cause my taid fought in WW2 to give us the freedom

    Soneone mentioed johnson shutting parliment

    He can do that and also he can leave Oct 31 if he chooses and not break any laws

    As EU law Superceeds UK law.

    And Treaty of the EU of which Article 50 forms a Part of trumps An act of parliment ( European Communities act 1974)
    It shouldnt but it does

    So Boris wouldnt be breaking any laws if he left Oct31

    If that was overturned by out Courts there would be 100s of cases that had Eu Law attached which would need Voiding.

    How did you think leaving would actually work? In its simplest form, leaving is like a divorce. There has to be negotiation, call it what you will.

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