Attorney General tells Lucas (the Gonner) the way it is

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  • #174708

    TimRegency
    Participant

    I am just at a complete loss that when I was asked to vote, which I did, the outcome of that vote has still not been recognised as a fair and democratic decision.

    That’s fair enough actually. You can’t blame the people who voted for brexit. They were given a choice – to either remain in the EU or leave, and they voted in good faith. Their side won and now they expect the result to be implemented. They’ve merely done as asked.

    And this is why I blame David Cameron and his Conservative party. It’s their referendum, they set up the question as a dubious ‘either/or’ choice, without explaining or even caring exactly what ‘leave’ actually means and whether it is possible, let alone practical. They expected to simply win the referendum and made no plans for the possibility that they would lose. Cameron then simply walked away and dumped his mess in Theresa May’s lap. That’s why people who voted for it should be cross with the Conservatives for mis-selling them this faulty brexit product.

    #174713

    Matt
    Participant

    Tim’s right – it was an advisory referendum and the Parliamentary arithmetic has NEVER existed at any point post Brexit to actually push Brexit through.

    That is the reason why May called an election in 2017 because internal polling in her party, she’d have known the number of pro-EU MPs in her party would have negated her very slim majority and then she lost that majority (showing that enough numbers weren’t really behind Brexit in the public view 1 year on) and had to go into a ropey deal with the DUP. Then beyond that it’s just become an absolute farce.

    If we have another General Election it will be a complete throw of the dice as to whether or not there will be sufficient parliamentary arithmetic to push Brexit through either on a deal or no deal. Now that the Brexit Party is propping up the Pro-Brexit vote, you have to wonder whether they’ll help or harm the cause on that side because there’s a high chance they will just end up splitting the vote with the Conservatives.

    Everyone is expecting another hung parliament and if we have a second referendum – no matter what the outcome – people will be unhappy.

    If a confirmatory vote comes through for Brexit – we may still not have the Parliamentary arithmetic for Brexit – because Lib Dems, SNP and the Majority of Lab MPs will never vote a Brexit through. Also – I believe at that point the SNP will immediately trigger intention to run a second IndyRef ASAP and there’s a high chance that will be the end of the UK if they vote to leave (haha).

    Then there’s the Ireland problem – that small matter that no Northern Irish republicans will EVER accept a hard border with Southern Ireland meaning Northern Ireland has to permanently stay in an economic zone with the EU. But then No Loyalists (DUP) will EVER accept a sea border with the rest of the UK.

    It’s all well and good people continuously saying why can’t we just get on and leave, but it’s a near impossible situation with all the stakeholders involved. The reality is, if we’re going to Brexit England and Wales will achieve that but Scotland will have no part of it and there will be a strong push towards Ireland becoming united.

    Then a remain vote will lead to potential civil unrest. What a tangled web we weave.

    #174717

    dewi73
    Participant

    showing that enough numbers weren’t really behind Brexit in the public view 1 year on

    Didn’t Labour campaign in 2017 to honour the result of the referendum? Just a thought

    #174722

    Matt
    Participant

    Didn’t Labour campaign in 2017 to honour the result of the referendum? Just a thought

    Yes, because of the absence of UKIP – Tories got roughly a 2/3 of the previous UKIP vote share increase in swing & Labour got roughly a 1/3 of the previous UKIP vote share. So you’d expect a similar proportional swing back towards Brexit Party if people are specifically interested in getting Brexit done.

    Across the country Tories would be expected to lose double the numbers to the Brexit Party that Lab will. Currently Labour are at least offering to get a new deal from the EU but whether or not they decide to campaign for it I don’t know. It’s a bit of a fudge to try and please all Lab MPs, members and voters (strong remain/strong leave areas).

    #174725

    grandmastashi
    Participant

    It was an advisory referendum, Farage himself is quoted as admitting it.

    #174726

    zinger
    Participant

    Does that mean that the referendum on staying in the EC in 1975 was also advisory & does it mean that the referendum on devolution was too?

    #174731

    Matt
    Participant

    Does that mean that the referendum on staying in the EC in 1975 was also advisory & does it mean that the referendum on devolution was too?

    1975 referendum was not legally binding, so was advisory.

    Devo ref in Wales was pre-legislative and therefore also advisory.

    #174758

    zinger
    Participant

    Oh, I see!!!

    #174759

    TimRegency
    Participant

    The score’s 1 – 1. Best of three?

    #174781

    Thor
    Participant

    That is a matter of judgment.

    And ultimately it will be the judgment of the British people in the referendum that I promised and that I will deliver.

    You will have to judge what is best for you and your family, for your children and grandchildren, for our country, for our future.

    It will be your decision whether to remain in the EU on the basis of the reforms we secure, or whether we leave.

    Your decision.

    Nobody else’s.

    Not politicians’.

    Not Parliament’s.

    Not lobby groups’.

    Not mine.

    Just you.

    You, the British people, will decide.

    At that moment, you will hold this country’s destiny in your hands.

    This is a huge decision for our country, perhaps the biggest we will make in our lifetimes.

    And it will be the final decision.

    So to those who suggest that a decision in the referendum to leave…

    …would merely produce another stronger renegotiation and then a second referendum in which Britain would stay…

    …I say think again.

    The renegotiation is happening right now. And the referendum that follows will be a once in a generation choice.

    An in or out referendum.

    When the British people speak, their voice will be respected – not ignored.

    If we vote to leave, then we will leave.

    There will not be another renegotiation and another referendum.

    So I say to my European counterparts with whom I am negotiating.

    This is our only chance to get this right – for Britain and for the whole European Union.

    I say to those who are thinking about voting to leave.

    Think very carefully, because this choice cannot be undone.

    Which part did it say we will have a 2nd go.
    Which part said there would be Soft or Hard breixt.

    The deal was the one in 2016

    We knew what we voted for. We listend.

    Remain didn’t.

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